How would you improve Batman V Superman? (SPOILERS)

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How would you improve Batman V Superman? (SPOILERS)

Postby gary2692 » Mar 27th, 2016, 1:59 am

So, by now, most of us would've probably seen the film and had our impressions on it. But what would you change about the movie? Would you change a plot point, a casting choice, a character or entire sections of the movie. And what would you replace it with?

My thoughts:

Act Two of the Movie:
So, the beginning of the movie is quite intense with Bruce Wayne driving around Metropolis and buildings falling around him. But after that, the movie becomes very slow with very few action scenes until the Batman and Superman fight. Sure, we get the little Batman introduction and Batmobile chase, nightmare sequences and Senator explosion scenes, but other than that it's quite uneventful.
I would probably put a few action scenes that showcase Batman and his skills a little more here and also flesh out Gotham City and Alfred a little more. Additionally, Superman never really gets a standalone fight of his own in the movie, so one of these could've been necessary. Lex Luthor needed more development and I don't think we needed so many scenes with Bruce and Alfred in the Batcave. At one point in the movie, as the set up for Superman's and Batman's battle began, there were so many pointless scenes before it featuring Superman and Lois Land, that I was almost screaming "just get to the battle". The director shouldn't have saved all of his action scenes till the last 30 minutes of the movie, he needed to space them out.

The timing of the Nightmare Sequence:
Though quite cool and exciting to watch, the nightmare sequence was so out of place and disrupted the flow of the movie and, ultimately, made it quite forgettable. They should've fitted this in at a much more sensible time or not included it at all!

Lois Lane's Plot Line:
One word: uninteresting.

That's all I can think of right now. Remember, however, that this is just my opinion and, overall, I did enjoy the movie, especially the last 30-40 minutes. But what are your thoughts on Batman V Supernan: Dawn of Justice? What would you change about the movie?
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Re: How would you improve Batman V Superman? (SPOILERS)

Postby TFDutchman » Mar 27th, 2016, 2:43 am

Rewrite the whole thing.

See one of the film's biggest problems is Lex Luthor's plan. Batman and Superman were already in opposition to each other based off their personal views of one another. Batman didn't need any goading from Lex to push him towards fighting. Same with Superman. Superman delivered the threat about giving up the bat, he didn't need his mother to be kidnapped in order for Batman to goad him into battle. It would've felt more natural and better focused on opposing and conflicting viewpoints rather than Superman going into the fight due to his mother taken hostage thus having the whole fight rely on the fact that Superman can't speak a single sentence to explain the situation.

Thus Lex's plan can focus entirely on Doomsday's creation. Fearful of Superman he develops and creates Doomsday to kill Superman and stays out of the Batman-Superman conflict. He's the villain working in the background that not only provides Batman with a source of Kryptonite, but has his iwn isolated plan for taking out the Man of Steel.

And then of course, remove all the Justice League stuff.

Keep the senate hearing, but don't blow it up. Actually allow Superman to speak and present his viewpoint and side of the story.

And don't kill Jimmy Olsen.
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Re: How would you improve Batman V Superman? (SPOILERS)

Postby DatBat » Mar 27th, 2016, 3:25 am

Make sure to clearly establish the fact that Jesse Eisenberg is not Lex Luthor, but his son, therefore a new character.

Have Batman be nonlethal, or explain why he is lethal.

Working on Doomsday's CGI more

Get rid of Wonder Woman or make her integral to the plot. Gal Gadot's performance was one of my favorite parts of the film, but the movie would have been pretty much the same without her.

Make the Justice League hints mean something. A general viewer unfamiliar to comic book lore would have been very confused.
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Re: How would you improve Batman V Superman? (SPOILERS)

Postby batman404 » Mar 27th, 2016, 5:05 am

Re-write it for the most part, re-cast Lex Luthor, have Batman not kill anyone and basically just have a very less is more approach to the film in general.
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Re: How would you improve Batman V Superman? (SPOILERS)

Postby pukipuki » Mar 27th, 2016, 7:00 am

I would have put the whole thumb drive scene where B-man finds out the cyborg, flash, aqua man, WW videos at the end of the movie as "files he ignored" or "some files WW tried to delete" because of her involvement in them. And have Batman watched those videos. And just when he would click on the Flash video the whole Flash cameo would have played out. And then he would just call Wonder Woman and tell her that they need to put together that team. Would have been better than how Batman originally decided to put the team together.

I would have made Batman non-lethal.

I would get rid of the whole Africa thingy. And get rid of Lex in general.... Because Lex if Lex wasn't in the movie, Batman would still find Superman to be dangerous, he still would have found the kryptonite. He still would have kicked his ass, and we wouldn't get the shoe-horned Doomy Dooms. Even though I loved the whole Double KO thing that was portrayed better than the comics IMO. I could have watched a Batman v Superman film with the titular fight was the final fight....

Speaking of, I would have loved the fight to have been longer. As AWESOME as it was, it left something to be desired. But something tells me this was not the last time the heroes would fight..... Hints at an injustice type movie were quite prominent.... I loved that, but that movie would need to be more darker than BvS..... The critics will have a field day with that!

I need to talk more about Lex. If he was less annoying than Jesse Eisenberg I would have been happy. But dang it he was Jesse Eisenberg!!!!

All in all the movie met my expectations as a good movie... But some better editing could have made this a lot better.
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Re: How would you improve Batman V Superman? (SPOILERS)

Postby Bleemak » Mar 27th, 2016, 2:24 pm

Remove Wonder Woman. Her presence wasn't necessary.

Make Doomsday Bizarro, who is still made from Zod and Lex' blood. That way, we could have one scene, where Superman holds down to wonder is it truly Zod or not.

Remove all JL cameos. Unnecessary.

Give Lex more screentime. Make him to be less crazy and to see that all his crazy things were just an act. Show us he is a genius menace. And show why he hates Superman.

Also, fix this thing: how did Lex knew when Batman is going to battle Superman? How did he know that Batman is making all these preparations for the battle? Lucky guess?

Show us why Supes hates Batsie.

And if they make Batman a killer, have Alfred confront him about it. Something like this:

Alfred: "I see you killed some men there. Again."

Bruce: "Alfred, we already had this conversation."

Alfred: "The man I know, who started this crusade, made an oath to never kill anyone."

Bruce: "Well that man didn't have a young boy tortured and killed, because he didn't kill one madman. "

Something like that would've made sense why Batman doesn't care if criminals die...
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Re: How would you improve Batman V Superman? (SPOILERS)

Postby arkhamcitydood » Mar 27th, 2016, 6:36 pm

I thought this movie had some problems, but I wouldn't change anything.

Maybe add some action scenes, maybe some more backstory on batman's career. That's about it.
Oh, and the final shot of the film. That was the only thing that made me mad about the movie
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Re: How would you improve Batman V Superman? (SPOILERS)

Postby ChaosThe15th » Mar 27th, 2016, 7:13 pm

I think most of the problems this film had (the big ones anyway) could have been fixed in the editing room.
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Re: How would you improve Batman V Superman? (SPOILERS)

Postby JordanT4021 » Mar 28th, 2016, 2:12 am

Recast Lex Luthor
This was the biggest problem for me. I don't like Jesse Eisenberg as an actor and I think he's the male equivalent of Kristen Stewart. His scenes were unbearable and made me cringe. Bravo to Chris Terrio and the writers for helping make him intimidating without him having to be on screen. Its unfortunate to think Bryan Cranston was in the running but they chose Eisenberg. To me, Lex Luthor is terrifying because he's so sane and calm. He does what he sees necessary with composure, which is usually a wicked and evil scheme that causes the death of hundreds of innocents. Cranston would have been a great actor to convey that. He isn't some psychotic manchild. Leave the crazy to the Batman villains.

Make it more accessible
This wasn't a problem for me until "Beyond the Trailer" pointed it out in her BvS spoiler review. She stated that her friends were confused with a lot of the plot because they weren't familiar with MoS and other DC elements. This got me thinking and I realised that if you're not a DC fan, you're going to be very confused as to what a lot of it means, which could also be a reason critics weren't happy with he film. Moments like the Darkseid foreshadowing, the Flash cameo and even the Robin costume would have gone over a lot of people's heads. They should have taken time to try and explain certain aspects to non-comic-reading viewers because these are supposed to be tie ins to future instalments and if fans are lost now, they have no chance for success in the future.

Make Lois Lane important
This is a minor point but Lois' involvement in the film was pretty useless. Her sub plot focused around her discovering Lex Luthor was the man pulling the strings but by the time she figures it out, everybody knows, meaning all her work is worthless. Just like at the films climax. She throws away the Kryptonite weapon then almost drowns retrieving it, again making her work useless.

Portray Batman's intelligence
Now I'm nitpicking but I'll say it anyway. Batman was one of the most incredible parts of this film but I kept feeling as though they weren't showing his intelligence enough. They mostly showed him as a powerful brute force and a disturbed man but they never showed his detective skills at work or his awareness of basically everything. For example, When Bruce is trying to steal information from Lex's servers, he isn't subtle at all and gets caught by Mercy Graves and the device he uses is stolen by Diana without him realising (although, I love how badass Wonder Woman was in this scene without actually having to do anything).
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Re: How would you improve Batman V Superman? (SPOILERS)

Postby AW8 » Mar 28th, 2016, 4:55 pm

TFDutchman wrote:Rewrite the whole thing.

See one of the film's biggest problems is Lex Luthor's plan. Batman and Superman were already in opposition to each other based off their personal views of one another. Batman didn't need any goading from Lex to push him towards fighting. Same with Superman. Superman delivered the threat about giving up the bat, he didn't need his mother to be kidnapped in order for Batman to goad him into battle. It would've felt more natural and better focused on opposing and conflicting viewpoints rather than Superman going into the fight due to his mother taken hostage thus having the whole fight rely on the fact that Superman can't speak a single sentence to explain the situation.

True. The causes behind the central fight were just dumb and made what should have been an awesome, tense duel a truly nonsensical clash and a waste of good action.

The writing was Terrioble.
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Re: How would you improve Batman V Superman? (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr Wayne » Mar 28th, 2016, 10:52 pm

Improve:

Editing. Cut certain scenes. Very choppy.

Lois/Clark. Very underdeveloped relationship.

Too much going on. Maybe should have actually split it into 2 movies. BVS (movie) then have Doomsday take on JL.(A whole different movie)

Give Lex a clear motive. Not just some weird god complex. Didn't mind Eisenberg.

Kill Lois. If she is being shoehorned to be this heroine just kill her and have the heroes do the hero stuff instead of waste a character. Jimmy really? C'mon Zack.

No other problems. Can't really believe some people have a problem with Batman killing, but are ok with him nearly killing....? (Knifing people, breaking bones)
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Re: How would you improve Batman V Superman? (SPOILERS)

Postby batman404 » Mar 28th, 2016, 11:25 pm

Mr Wayne wrote:No other problems. Can't really believe some people have a problem with Batman killing, but are ok with him nearly killing....? (Knifing people, breaking bones)


There's a big difference between killing someone and injuring someone. Batman killing goes against everything the character is.
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Re: How would you improve Batman V Superman? (SPOILERS)

Postby Mr Wayne » Mar 29th, 2016, 9:39 am

batman404 wrote:
Mr Wayne wrote:No other problems. Can't really believe some people have a problem with Batman killing, but are ok with him nearly killing....? (Knifing people, breaking bones)


There's a big difference between killing someone and injuring someone. Batman killing goes against everything the character is.


Oh I totally agree. But it's something I've never had a massive problem with as in 89&Returns plus Harvey in TDK proves he does. Just shows a different side to Bruce. I suspect he'll bite the dust at the end of all this. Just don't see all the hullabaloo when he's done it basically in every movie but now because he is more violent people kick up a fuss.
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Re: How would you improve Batman V Superman? (SPOILERS)

Postby batman404 » Mar 29th, 2016, 11:33 am

Mr Wayne wrote:
batman404 wrote:
Mr Wayne wrote:No other problems. Can't really believe some people have a problem with Batman killing, but are ok with him nearly killing....? (Knifing people, breaking bones)


There's a big difference between killing someone and injuring someone. Batman killing goes against everything the character is.


Oh I totally agree. But it's something I've never had a massive problem with as in 89&Returns plus Harvey in TDK proves he does. Just shows a different side to Bruce. I suspect he'll bite the dust at the end of all this. Just don't see all the hullabaloo when he's done it basically in every movie but now because he is more violent people kick up a fuss.


Yeah I never had a problem with it in the Burton flicks either, but I think nostalgia probably clouds my view a bit on that one.
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Re: How would you improve Batman V Superman? (SPOILERS)

Postby BuNKiTZ » Mar 30th, 2016, 6:42 am

Have Superman be more like, Superman. As much as I like Cavill, his Superman still doesn't really feel like Superman to me. Sure, he's got the powers, almost the look, and he's even done various feats like catching a falling rocket-thing and saving a girl from a burning building. But personality-wise? He's still lacking. He doesn't have "heart," as Kevin Smith said (he referred to the whole movie, though, haha). Superman is kind. You could even say gentle. He shouldn't have just fucking faster-than-a-speeding-bullet-ed that guy who held Lois hostage. Although, yeah, I really liked when he tried to get Bruce's help before the latter started blasting him with his special attack: Prep Time.

Side note: Holding hostages like that is dumb. You say you're going to kill them. Okay. You kill them, and then what? You have nothing to prevent the good guy from stopping you afterwards. It's stupid.

Replace The Riddler with Lex Luthor. The Riddler is cool and all, and Jessie Eisenberg did a great job playing the guy, but he just doesn't fit the "rich, famous, megalomaniac genius" type of character. He's more of a straight up criminal genius with an ego larger than Texas, you know? All jokes aside, I really liked the evil part of the character. Eisenberg did a great job portraying that side, but all the weird quirky things about the character really just screamed "Riddler" to me and not Luthor. I really loved the cunning evil mastermind part, but the rest not so much.

Another side note: I would have liked to fix how Luthor planned to have Batman kill Superman and yet he still made Doomsday, but I can't think of how. Like, what the POW are you going to do if Batman did kill Superman? Who the POW's gonna stop Doomsday? Does he simply think he can control "the devil?" If he was simply making Doomsday in order to get rid of Superman or as a weapon against him, that would have made sense. So, yeah, maybe not have Luthor pit Batman against Superman.

Lessen the Justice League setup. I thought I wasn't going to like how they were rushing to set up the League so much, but to my surprise, I really liked it. Actually, okay, no, it made more sense that I was excited for it. Anyway, as much as I liked it, they should have lessened it. Specifically: "The Knightmare Sequence." That was totally out of place, wasn't really even that great except for the cool-looking Batman, and just, yeah, feels very forced. Future Flash showing up was pretty cool, but I think it could have been done better. It could have also been simply removed. For the former, though, I would have made it so that Flash wasn't stuck in a pose like he's reaching for an object the whole time. I suppose I get the why, but it just looks dumb. Make him just show up in a regular-ish standing pose, maybe tired-looking or not, then have him maybe be all blurry and hard to make out while his voice echoes as he delivers his message before vanishing.

Get rid of Cyborg. That's it. Just, straight up get rid of him. No Cyborg for the Justice League. Simple as that.

Side note tres: I would have made it so that he becomes Cyborg in Justice League instead, though, when Darkseid shows up. Unless they have a really good explanation for how Silas obtained a Mother Box.

Fix Jimmy Olsen. From what little we saw of him, he wasn't Jimmy. Both TV and movie Jimmy Olsen aren't Jimmy Olsen. Neither were the kind of nervous, clumsy sidekick to the Man of Steel. They're both confident and handsome (I guess?) characters. This one was way too "cool and confident" for me. In addition to that, he was Luthor's thug. From what I understand, he was part of the group that used Lois Lane, which was Lex and his thugs who infiltrated that terrorist (?) group in order to frame Superman. So, yeah, seems like he was one of Lex's lackeys. Once again, not Jimmy-like. Oh, and don't kill him for POW's sake. Make him actually be Jimmy Olsen in that situation, you know? Maybe have Superman save him and Lois. That would be a quick way to establish their relationship. They could show that Superman's like "Are you alright, Jimmy?" Then Jimmy goes "Yeah, Supes, but they've got Lois inside, go save her!" or something like that, I don't know.

Remove Lois Lane. Unless they could come up with a good way to make her more than just a plot device for Superman.

Yet another side note: Christ, Clark, take your clothes off before you get into the goddamn tub.

Have Superman be more remorseful of the senate bombing. His facial expression was more like "Ugh. An explosion. Eugh, people dying." than remorse. It would have been much more appropriate if he at least screamed or something, and performing the futile act of trying to save the people. Don't just fucking stand there and mope. Jesus.

Make Wonder Woman more relevant to the plot, and not just the Justice League setup. I don't know, do it somehow. She was wonderful (yes, intended), but like others have said, virtually irrelevant to the plot.

Not something I would change about the movie itself, but I hope that in the future, they explain that Batman killing was a result of Joker murdering Jason.
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