How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Talk about Arkham Origins and Arkham Origins Blackgate from WB Games Montreal, Splash Damage and Armature Studios.

How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby TheSythe » Nov 30th, 2014, 8:42 am

To be honest, out of the three Arkham games that have already released, Arkham Origins was probably your least favorite, now I'm not saying that this is everyone's opinion, but this is many people's thoughts on the game. The game itself is a pretty good game, but it wasn't good enough to step outside it's predecessor's shadows. Now I realize this is a forum talking predominately about the upcoming Arkham Knight, but I really wanted to voice my opinions. Here are the three things that would make Arkham Origins a fundamentally better game.

-Take out Joker's Role in the Game Completely: Now let's think about it, Joker's addition to this game is a little bit needless, I would've loved to have Black Mask as the final boss battle instead of the one we got with Joker, personally I would've loved a plot twist at the end where instead of Waller confronting Deathstroke, Batman confronts Waller at her office, he tells her that he knew she gave Black Mask the money for the bounty, Waller replies that she knew it would not kill him, it would merely test him. Then she would go on to say that was to test candidates for a project called; 'Task Force X'. Getting back on track I would've like to have seen Joker's origin that night. Like when Batman is tracking down Black Mask he interrogates Carmine Falcone, he tells him that he can go find Black Mask at X location or he can go to Ace Chemicals to stop a break-in. He decides to go to Ace Chemicals and you know the rest of the story. This would be ideal for a second game that would focus on the events of the Long Halloween, which is a rich and enduring storyline. There could be a possibility that this event (Joker's Origin) could also be the boss battle for a side mission involving the Falcones, which brings me to my next point.

-Having Better Side Missions: As most people can agree on this; the side missions in Arkham Origins were not up to par to say the least, heck I'de rather play the side missions in Arkham Asylum than the ones in Arkham Origins. Now I liked the Enigma side mission, personally speaking the side mission for Riddler in Arkham City took a bit too long. The side missions in this game were promising, I liked the Anarchy side mission but it was far too short, it could've been a lot longer. Same thing with the Bird side missions, they just weren't that long. Not to mention that I think the inclusion of Deadshot and Lady Shiva as side missions were unnecessary, they were big enough to be in the main storyline. The result of these bad side missions left the city feeling empty and lifeless, unlike the congested feeling that you got from Arkham City.

-The Inclusion of Bane: Now this one has bothered me time and time again, he did pretty much everything he did in Knightfall (besides breaking the Caped Crusader's back) in ONE NIGHT. This is just unrealistic, he is such a great villain and I think that he would've made an excellent adversary for the sequel to a second game made by WBGM (see Joker's inclusion into the game). Sadly he has now been reduced to blubbering mass of fat. I did not like his inclusion as the final boss for the game, there's many reasons for that, now I realize the boss battle was unique, but they made it seem like Deathstroke was the main assassin, but instead we got Bane!? Come on.

Now this is not to say that the game was bad, the premise of it was actually the best of all of the three games. It explained quite clearly how eight major villains came together on one night and they all go up against Batman. The character designs for the game are awesome too, especially that of Bane, Killer Croc, Deadshot, and Deathstroke. Even I can deal with the glitches, but sadly there was just too much potential storytelling for me to leave this stone unturned. Please comment below one the various things that you would've like to see included into Arkham Origins, or list off the things you liked about the game and that you thought were an improvement upon the franchise
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby LelekPL » Nov 30th, 2014, 11:15 am

WRONG SECTION. There's an entire section dedicated to Arkham Origins!
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby crush8503 » Nov 30th, 2014, 11:34 am

*I'll respond to your points in bold

- Take out Joker's Role in the Game Completely: I'm probably in the minority but I had no problem with him being Black Mask. I enjoyed the twist. I didn't see it coming and, in a way, it's the kind of thing Joker would do. This allowed for the story to shift gears and flesh out the Batman/Joker relationship in a way that hadn't been done in the previous games. In my opinion, it gave more context to Joker's death in Arkham City and foreshadows the story of a world without Joker in Arkham Knight.

As for Black Mask's role, we still get a (sort of) boss battle in his side mission. As underwhelming as it might be.

- Having Better Side Missions: I agree with your comments about the side missions. Most of them were lazy beat 'em ups. Deadshot's mission was enjoyable but really should have been part of the main story. The only side mission that I felt was an improvement over Arkham City was Mad Hatter. The fact he had a hostage raised the stakes a bit and the Alice-in-Wonderland mindtrip was more satisfying.

- The Inclusion of Bane: I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand I really liked the way WBM designed his character model and made him into a mastermind again, but on the other hand we had 2 ridiculously long boss battles with him. And to your other point; I know that we shouldn't apply logic to comics, but the Knightfall storyline happening in one night is just too unbelievable.

So how would I make Origins better?

Gameplay - It needed more innovation. But from what I understand, WBM were in a tough spot because the game had a specific deadline and Arkham Knight was already in the works, so they added what they could: CSI Detective Mode, Shock Gloves, Fast Travel, Remote Claw, and several new environments.

A major thing I would have changed is the pacing. There's just way too much combat and not enough predator rooms; it really needed a better balance of the two. Sames goes for the Cryptographic Sequencer, which was also used too much. I would've liked a stronger emphasis on puzzles and more challenging/random passwords to unlock doors.

Story - I didn't have a problem with it, but I would've preferred a story in a timeline closer to the events of Arkham Asylum. Yet I suppose with the new actors and not having enough time to create a playable Bat-family, they went with a Year-Two story where Batman was still a solo act.
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby HaHaHa » Nov 30th, 2014, 3:06 pm

In my opinion Origins would've been a better game with a more linear approach rather than open world. Free roaming Gotham city in Origins serves very little purpose other than beating up random thugs or collecting the countless Enigma data packs which is in itself a great idea, but those littered across the city makes no sense.

Where Warner Montreal really succeeded in Origins is the interiors i.e Blackgate, Final Offer etc. They look really good in comparison to the city which looks awful (especially Old Gotham) and they change according to the narrative. Being limited to buildings but seeing an active city around you would've brought Gotham to life. Just think of the cool locations you could go :adam:
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby Mani-Man » Nov 30th, 2014, 3:55 pm

There are some things they could have done, but its easier to see problems after a game is released then before.

Their biggest mistake was, using plotpoints that asylum and city already had.
That was not needed and hinders the games story overall.

The first "riot" in blackgate was okay. but having a second and a third(origins Blackgate) was just too much.
There was no real purpose to them, if we would have gotten calendar man as a villian or so, then it would have been good.
But ultimatly, not even loebs death did matter much.

The Assassins are the next thing were they missed their mark.
Bane and Firefly are really the only two who seemed to be a challenge, the others were not that dangerous.
Especially Shiva,Deathstroke and Deadshot are a dissapointment.
There was soo much more potential with the whole story, but it gets overlooked by the joker.

I liked the joker, but he was not needed in this game, this should have been about the assassins and black mask.
Deathstroke should have had a bigger role, he is one of the most dangerous mercenaries in the dc universe...why not in the Arkham timeline?
They could have done sooo much with him and Batman.

Also like Hahaha said, the free roam is a bit of a problem.
There are just not enough easter eggs and stuff for such a big place.
More different crime in progress, better pacing of the crime scenes, longer side missions etc could have made this a lot more enjoyable.
For example, hunting calendar man through gothams street could have been cool...but he was just a short cameo.

Then of course one big mistake was the fact that the tried to ty it all into arkham asylums timeline so fast.
They had a fantastic bane, then they blew it up with making him into Asylum Bane in a very weak conclusion.
The Game tries to fast and hard to match the asylum timeline.

Also the conflict between batman and the GCPD could have made bigger, i was hoping for cops ambushing me on rooftops, branden traping me in a building etc.
But even the whole Batman/gordon partnership was done very fast.

Im just writing this all done in a go, if i think about it, i would find probably many different things that could have helped the game.
Having said all that...my playthrough of Origins awaits, i still love the game soo much.
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby JohnBlake » Nov 30th, 2014, 5:39 pm

By removing it from existence.
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby Andy » Nov 30th, 2014, 5:44 pm

JohnBlake wrote:By removing it from existence.


Oh, you're still here
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby gwoodsii » Nov 30th, 2014, 6:20 pm

Should have tried fewer new things and just given us a rehash of City
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby RdJokr » Nov 30th, 2014, 6:58 pm

JohnBlake wrote:By removing it from existence.

Very constructive criticism there...
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby Red_Hood » Nov 30th, 2014, 8:55 pm

JohnBlake wrote:By removing it from existence.


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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby johnsyggel » Nov 30th, 2014, 9:21 pm

1.It should take place during several nights instead f only 1.
2.The side missions shouldn't and wouldn't count as assassins' missions.You can totally complete the game without even bothering to play the side missions.So the assassins were not 8,right?
3.Leave the Tn-1 thing out of the game.Total rip-off of AA and AC.
4.No Croc at the end.Useless.
5.No second Blackgate riot.
6.Joker was needed in the game.WBGM gave us their side of Batman's origin story.At least during his 2nd year.What good is a Batman's origin story without the Joker?Come on,we all wanted to see what WBG could do with the character.But Black Mask deserved a way bigger role.
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby Batwoman » Nov 30th, 2014, 10:46 pm

By actually making Sionis the main villain , as we were promised .
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby TheJester » Nov 30th, 2014, 11:08 pm

1 - Change the upgrade 'skill tree' menu design. I typically don't mind this way of earning upgrades in most games, but here it was incredibly forced and made it so complex to gain the upgrades you actually wanted like you could in the previous games. Want to upgrade your armour? You gotta upgrade your batarangs first etc. Didn't like that at all.

2 - More Black Mask, less Joker. Hypocritical in a sense as this game's Joker is my favourite portrayal of him outside of the comics, but it was a real shame they made him hog the spotlight; it would have been great to see more of who we actually thought was in charge. That whole twist in general was strange, and it would have made more sense if Joker had just been working of his own accord and ambushed Black Mask's plans midway through the game.

3 - Expanded side missions. Some were fine like Anarky's and Mad Hatter's, but others were either too short (Deadshot and Shiva) or too simplistic in their 'collect X number of Y' design. It was a problem in City too, but here it's slightly more prevalent due to two of your 'assassins' having so little screen time.

4 - Change up the assassin line up. Croc wasn't needed, nor was Firefly, though the latter at least had an interesting boss fight.

5 - The gameplay felt way too similar to AC, especially when you have several upgrades you earn through the latter at the very start of the game, most notably the grapple boost. They also reused several character models which was really jarring for me. They did add several new elements like the crime scenes and Batplane which I liked, but other than that it was a straight up copy - which of course isn't entirely bad, if it ain't broke yadda yadda, but the Glue Grenade was a rip off of the Freeze Grenade, and the Electric Gloves made you OP.

6 - Get rid of Enigma's collectables. The data packs aren't nearly as interesting as solving riddles, a cameo from him would have been fine.

Overall though, I still do really like this game :)
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby Red leader » Dec 1st, 2014, 12:38 am

I find it funny that despite not liking joker in city and feeling that he is to over used and the fact that black mask is my second favorite batman villain, I acually like the joker stuff. Don't get me wrong they should not have mislead us but despite what some people say, there was a story they wanted to tell with him and it was a good one. In fact origins joker is in my opinion the best joker outside if comics.

-- Dec 1st, 2014, 12:40 am --

I find it funny that despite not liking joker in city and feeling that he is to over used and the fact that black mask is my second favorite batman villain, I acually like the joker stuff. Don't get me wrong they should not have mislead us but despite what some people say, there was a story they wanted to tell with him and it was a good one. In fact origins joker is in my opinion the best joker outside if comics.

-- Dec 1st, 2014, 12:40 am --

TheJester wrote:1 - Change the upgrade 'skill tree' menu design. I typically don't mind this way of earning upgrades in most games, but here it was incredibly forced and made it so complex to gain the upgrades you actually wanted like you could in the previous games. Want to upgrade your armour? You gotta upgrade your batarangs first etc. Didn't like that at all.

2 - More Black Mask, less Joker. Hypocritical in a sense as this game's Joker is my favourite portrayal of him outside of the comics, but it was a real shame they made him hog the spotlight; it would have been great to see more of who we actually thought was in charge. That whole twist in general was strange, and it would have made more sense if Joker had just been working of his own accord and ambushed Black Mask's plans midway through the game.

3 - Expanded side missions. Some were fine like Anarky's and Mad Hatter's, but others were either too short (Deadshot and Shiva) or too simplistic in their 'collect X number of Y' design. It was a problem in City too, but here it's slightly more prevalent due to two of your 'assassins' having so little screen time.

4 - Change up the assassin line up. Croc wasn't needed, nor was Firefly, though the latter at least had an interesting boss fight.

5 - The gameplay felt way too similar to AC, especially when you have several upgrades you earn through the latter at the very start of the game, most notably the grapple boost. They also reused several character models which was really jarring for me. They did add several new elements like the crime scenes and Batplane which I liked, but other than that it was a straight up copy - which of course isn't entirely bad, if it ain't broke yadda yadda, but the Glue Grenade was a rip off of the Freeze Grenade, and the Electric Gloves made you OP.

6 - Get rid of Enigma's collectables. The data packs aren't nearly as interesting as solving riddles, a cameo from him would have been fine.

Overall though, I still do really like this game :)

Come on, firefly was fine. Yea he is not an assassin but lyns needs some love. Granted I am biased as I personally like firefly nearly as much as the joker. Though I agree that croc was out of place.
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby TheBat » Dec 1st, 2014, 2:01 am

JohnBlake wrote:By removing it from existence.


Spoiler: show




Definitely most of what people have said regarding a larger emphasis on the Assassins. As well, MORE CRIME SCENES.
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