How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Talk about Arkham Origins and Arkham Origins Blackgate from WB Games Montreal, Splash Damage and Armature Studios.

Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby BuNKiTZ » Dec 1st, 2014, 5:12 am

Great idea for a topic. I like it.

First and foremost, I would say... the story. Now, I love the story, but there were a few things here and there that I didn't like so much. The most important in this would be Black Mask's part in it. WBGM touted him off as the main villain in the game and it really would have been a nice change and possibly an even more interesting story with him as the lead villain rather than the Joker. While I do love Joker's role in the story and everything about him here and understand the significance of this game as the origin of Batman and Joker's relationship, it would have been really nice to see the spotlight on somebody else and see Batman interact with a bit more mob-villains (I don't think Black Mask really qualifies as one, but he's at least not so crazy like the Joker) and less crazy.

Then there's the issue of the assassins. I've come to terms with Croc's inclusion in the game and his part, but Shiva, Deathstroke, and Deadshot were disappointing. Shiva, for obvious reasons, was really disappointing. Not only was she turned into a cheap side mission, but it wasn't even a fun side mission. She's Lady Shiva for POW's sake! She's supposed to be deadlier than Deathstroke, but instead, we get a cheap side mission that ends with an even cheaper boss fight. Ugh. She was such a waste because I loved her portrayal here (as short as it was) and as usual, I always love seeing Chinese people in the things I watch or play. Deadshot was actually a pretty fun side mission, but that's the problem. He was a side mission. Like Shiva, they should've just included him in the main story instead. I feel like WBGM got too lazy to think of how they could write these two into the main story and decided to just waste them and turn them into side missions. *sighs* Lastly, we have Deathstroke. His boss fight was the best. He was awesome. Sadly, his part was really short. This is Deathstroke the Terminator. He and Batman go way back and have had some intense fights. I do not want to believe that a Year Two Batman can already defeat Slade. That's ridiculous. Especially in just one fight. The game was originally (or at least, an earlier iteration of it) meant to have at least two Deathstroke boss battles, the first of which ended in Batman's defeat. It would've been much better, in my opinion, if they kept that and gave Slade a large part like they originally planned.

Okay, fine, I'd still prefer if Croc wasn't in the game. Oh, and an aerial battle with Firefly would've been the bomb. See what I did there?

Oh, and then there's the TN-1, I suppose. While I liked its inclusion and how it ties into the story, I don't like that they made Bane use it and thus turn him into the dumb beast that he was in Asylum and City. Otherwise, Bane was perfect. Though, I did also really enjoy the final boss fight with him.

The side missions were shit. Okay, not totally shit, but they kinda sucked. Most of them, anyway. The whole Enigma thing was alright, except for the puzzles themselves. WBGM sucks at puzzle design. Majority of the puzzles were puzzles from City that they just re-used and not even wisely. The ones they made themselves were terrible. For example, the ones that required you to get enough altitude and land right on top of a tower/building. That was utter bullshit. They just decided to make those two Data Packs unnecessarily hard to reach. It would've been fine if they were there as we'd still have to look around for them, but they made us have to work hard physically by not allowing us to grapple or climb up there. For POW's sake, I was right below one of those and I couldn't get up or grapple up. Ugh. The other missions were simple fetch missions or beat-a-group-of-thugs missions. Oh, and Anarky could've been nice, but it was a re-used idea as well. It was Zsasz all over again. *sighs*

The Case File System was a good addition but it was made too easy because of those damned red markers. Seriously, WBGM had such a good opportunity to make an amazing addition into the franchise, but they screwed up by having those red markers. It's still a good addition though. I liked how we had a good amount of detective work outside the main story.

The Crime-in-Progress System was good in theory, but really just ended up becoming an alert signal to notify us that there are thugs and/or cops I can beat up somewhere. They should've made us actually have to stop crimes in progress such as a bank robbery or a car chase, etc.

The gadgets were kinda bad, I suppose. The Remote Claw is good, but the Glue Grenade? Come on. I don't need to explain that. Now, while I like the Concussion Detonator (was that the name?), it was not well made as it can get you in more trouble due to all the thugs trying to punch stuff and whatnot. Sometimes, while you're countering one thug already, another will come and accidentally punch you while you're unable to counter them. Actually, I believe it was also really just a "re-skinned smoke bomb" as its effects were the same and you could even here the thugs coughing. Either that, or its Free Flow Focus Power Gadget variant was. That, or something Deathstroke had.

Speaking of which, Deathstroke. The playable character. Obvious reasons. He was fun to play as, but would've been more fun if he was like, 99% more original. And used his katana. And guns. Not a freaking pellet "rifle."

Oh yeah, the skill tree was terribly linear and just, bad. Make it a proper skill tree if you want, but I don't think it really would've fit the Arkham games.
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby johnsyggel » Dec 1st, 2014, 2:55 pm

Red leader wrote:I find it funny that despite not liking joker in city and feeling that he is to over used and the fact that black mask is my second favorite batman villain, I acually like the joker stuff. Don't get me wrong they should not have mislead us but despite what some people say, there was a story they wanted to tell with him and it was a good one. In fact origins joker is in my opinion the best joker outside if comics.

Same here,bro.I totally prefer Joker in AO than in AA/AC.Not the voice of course,but the design.
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby CuzImBatman » Dec 1st, 2014, 11:47 pm

What would I change? Give Black Mask a bugger role. He was used almost at an underwhelming capacity rivaling Hugo Strange in Arkham City. I'm fine with Joker being an important character. The entire main story itself demands be serve a role. It's the events that Introduce the crazies and the supervillains to Gotham, and Batman opening up to working with associates, leading to the reformation of Arkham Asylum. That story is too bug to have no role for the Joker. His role was fine and was masterfully used. I just wish it wasn't at the expense of Black Mask. I would maybe add some refugees hiding from the criminals, corrupt cops, and the storm. The city didn't need to be filled with civilians roaming the streets. This isn't GTA, and nor should it ever be. Besides, the story wouldn't make much sense with crowds of people hanging out outside in a snow storm with assassins, gangs, and cops, not to mention a mysterious vigilante or mythical creature roaming the city. Still, a few people would reasonably be stick outside and exposed. Throw in a few refugees you have to keep safe. I would also tweak the upgrade system. It wasn't bad, but I prefer ed the old one. That's just a nit pick. On a similar note, I'd replace the copy gadgets (ice grenade from City, glue grenade from Origins for example), and either replace them with entirely new gadgets/equipment, or make significant alterations to pre-existing gadgets like how they changed up the line launcher into a grapple launcher for example. I'd maybe give the assassins either better screen time, especially Deathstroke, giving him more of a role in the game, even if he were only to be outdone by Bane, and give the others better side missions. Obviously i would have given next gen support so the devs could have had more time to work on the game without having to worry about releasing too close to the PS4 laumch, thereby decreasing the amount of bugs. All in all, it was a very good game, and felt like a classic Batman story, just like Asylum and City. If I can really fault the game for anything, it's that it played it too safe by making a significant contribution to the framchise, although, when the game was announced, people didn't want them to change too much because it was already great, but then they complained about them doing exactly what they wanted, so there's no pleasing anybody. People were basically pissed it wasn't Rocksteady, hence why it didn't get the credit it deserved, even despite it's faults. Voice acting, setting, themes, gameplay? characterization and character development, environment and character design, and score were all excellent in Arkham Origins, and very few people will recognize that. It wasn't the best game of 2013, but it definitely deserved to be represented.
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby Red leader » Dec 3rd, 2014, 3:06 am

johnsyggel wrote:
Red leader wrote:I find it funny that despite not liking joker in city and feeling that he is to over used and the fact that black mask is my second favorite batman villain, I acually like the joker stuff. Don't get me wrong they should not have mislead us but despite what some people say, there was a story they wanted to tell with him and it was a good one. In fact origins joker is in my opinion the best joker outside if comics.

Same here,bro.I totally prefer Joker in AO than in AA/AC.Not the voice of course,but the design.

I feel like baker is on par with mark. They really are the same joker voice wise just troy is younger.
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby johnsyggel » Dec 3rd, 2014, 1:08 pm

Red leader wrote:
johnsyggel wrote:
Red leader wrote:I find it funny that despite not liking joker in city and feeling that he is to over used and the fact that black mask is my second favorite batman villain, I acually like the joker stuff. Don't get me wrong they should not have mislead us but despite what some people say, there was a story they wanted to tell with him and it was a good one. In fact origins joker is in my opinion the best joker outside if comics.

Same here,bro.I totally prefer Joker in AO than in AA/AC.Not the voice of course,but the design.

I feel like baker is on par with mark. They really are the same joker voice wise just troy is younger.

As they did with Conroy and Roger Smith for Batman's voice.Exceptional voice work.
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby Joker's Nightmare » Dec 3rd, 2014, 2:50 pm

Unlike some moaning and bitching about the game, I'm fine with everything. I didn't face any bugs on consoles but the PC version has bug fest. That is the only complain I have. It was so much fun for 10 months or so playing campaign on three difficulties, challenges with Batman, Deathstroke, Bruce Wayne, Campaign and Story DLC and Multiplayer. I would say WBM did decent job in making the game specially with Cold Cold Heart DLC.
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby BuNKiTZ » Dec 3rd, 2014, 3:26 pm

Joker's Nightmare wrote:Unlike some moaning and bitching about the game, I'm fine with everything. I didn't face any bugs on consoles but the PC version has bug fest. That is the only complain I have. It was so much fun for 10 months or so playing campaign on three difficulties, challenges with Batman, Deathstroke, Bruce Wayne, Campaign and Story DLC and Multiplayer. I would say WBM did decent job in making the game specially with Cold Cold Heart DLC.

Ah, yes, because thinking of things you'd like improved in a game = "moaning and bitching about [it]."
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby SteamPunkBat » Dec 4th, 2014, 12:09 am

I've let this question roll though my head since I saw it earlier in the week. I think if I could expand upon something in the game, it would be Shiva's role, especially in lieu of Ra's role in City. I'm not saying that she need to be a plot element on par with Joker or Bane, but I would have liked her to have a larger impact.
I'd have liked for her or one of her ninja's to be visible on a distant roof top, if you were attentive (not unlike Azrael). And if you caught sight of her/them, they'd vanished either in smoke or ducked out sight. This could have even lead to ambushes if you tried to examine the spot they occupied.
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby crush8503 » Dec 4th, 2014, 4:17 am

SteamPunkBat wrote:I'd have liked for her or one of her ninja's to be visible on a distant roof top, if you were attentive (not unlike Azrael). And if you caught sight of her/them, they'd vanished either in smoke or ducked out sight. This could have even lead to ambushes if you tried to examine the spot they occupied.


That's actually a pretty cool idea.

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On the topic of improving the game, one other (minor) thing I forgot to mention is the lighting. The open world is just too bright. I wished the final product looked more like the e3 demo.

E3 Demo
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Game Version
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby Harvey Bullock » Dec 4th, 2014, 8:53 am

viewforum.php?f=103

-- Dec 4th, 2014, 7:55 am --

viewforum.php?f=103

-- Dec 4th, 2014, 7:55 am --

HaHaHa wrote:In my opinion Origins would've been a better game with a more linear approach rather than open world. Free roaming Gotham city in Origins serves very little purpose other than beating up random thugs or collecting the countless Enigma data packs which is in itself a great idea, but those littered across the city makes no sense.

Where Warner Montreal really succeeded in Origins is the interiors i.e Blackgate, Final Offer etc. They look really good in comparison to the city which looks awful (especially Old Gotham) and they change according to the narrative. Being limited to buildings but seeing an active city around you would've brought Gotham to life. Just think of the cool locations you could go :adam:

As someone whose favourite Arkham game was Origins I cannot agree with you enough. Smaller hub-esque worlds would've been so much more appropriate and would've completely eradicated the 'ghost city' of the game.
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby HaHaHa » Dec 4th, 2014, 1:14 pm

Harvey Bullock wrote:http://forums.arkhamverse.com/viewforum.php?f=103

-- Dec 4th, 2014, 7:55 am --

viewforum.php?f=103

-- Dec 4th, 2014, 7:55 am --

HaHaHa wrote:In my opinion Origins would've been a better game with a more linear approach rather than open world. Free roaming Gotham city in Origins serves very little purpose other than beating up random thugs or collecting the countless Enigma data packs which is in itself a great idea, but those littered across the city makes no sense.

Where Warner Montreal really succeeded in Origins is the interiors i.e Blackgate, Final Offer etc. They look really good in comparison to the city which looks awful (especially Old Gotham) and they change according to the narrative. Being limited to buildings but seeing an active city around you would've brought Gotham to life. Just think of the cool locations you could go :adam:

As someone whose favourite Arkham game was Origins I cannot agree with you enough. Smaller hub-esque worlds would've been so much more appropriate and would've completely eradicated the 'ghost city' of the game.


I'm hoping Warner Montreal will have learnt some valuable lessons with Origins, and that with the inclusion of Splinter Cell game director Patrick Redding as creative director we can expect a more focused game if they do indeed make another Arkham title.

I'd like to see more in depth stealth mechanics implemented in the Arkham games with more intuitive A.I in smaller interactive environments. Having a wider variety of ways to tackle opponents really would let you "be the Batman". Also having to change tactics where the opponent A.I has adapted to your gameplay style would be cool.
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby M. Malone » Dec 4th, 2014, 3:04 pm

crush8503 wrote:
SteamPunkBat wrote:I'd have liked for her or one of her ninja's to be visible on a distant roof top, if you were attentive (not unlike Azrael). And if you caught sight of her/them, they'd vanished either in smoke or ducked out sight. This could have even lead to ambushes if you tried to examine the spot they occupied.


That's actually a pretty cool idea.

---

On the topic of improving the game, one other (minor) thing I forgot to mention is the lighting. The open world is just too bright. I wished the final product looked more like the e3 demo.

E3 Demo
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Game Version
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Huh, never noticed this. As someone who is a self-proclaimed "graphics whore," I would have to agree wholeheartedly with your opinion.
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby Man-Bat x » Dec 11th, 2014, 8:06 pm

Just having :blackmask: as the main villian would make the game better in my opinion but I still love it.
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby HaHaHa » Dec 12th, 2014, 11:58 am

Man-Bat x wrote:Just having :blackmask: as the main villian would make the game better in my opinion but I still love it.


Definitely. He had such a cool design as well and they just threw the character away all for the sake of f'ing Joker. Sionis's scene with Copperhead in the steel mill is one of my favourites in the game, and his predicament is one of the more interesting character angles.
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Re: How would you make Arkham Origins better?

Postby thatguywiththebeanie » Jan 8th, 2015, 11:40 am

1. Take out Shiva and Deadshot and include them in the main game. As well as making their boss battles more interesting rather than predator combat maps.
2. Killer Croc was so random. But i Have to say it would have been cool if Croc popped up in the sewers of Blackgate during the second riot.
3. Make the gadgets useful. Never in the game did I feel the need to use that concussion detonator. They don't even make there be a bit where its necessary.
4. I liked Joker revealing himself as Black Mask but they shouldn't of made Black Mask a side mission. Also, I liked everything up until the end of the Royal Hotel mission. Everything after that was crap. I only liked the Firefly fight because it felt like it had nothing to do with the plot that was going on at that moment and it felt like we were back playing the first half of the game, being Assassins trying to kill you.
5. I wanted the Assassins to fight eachother in order to kill you. It would've been awesome in the middle of a fight with an Assassin their health suddenly drains and they fall to the ground. You investigate the body and area and find out Deadshot killed him from a distance or he had a slow acting poison from Copperhead. Just SOMETHING!
6. I liked the Bane lair bit and I was actually excited when I heard him name TN-1. I thought it was just a cool easter egg of things to come... Oh how wrong i was.
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