Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

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Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby sdhawan173 » Jul 8th, 2015, 11:34 pm

After seeing Tim Drake in the Batgirl DLC trailer today, I was a little confused with how this all fit into the timeline of the games. I was on the Batman Arkham Subreddit today and saw this great explanation of the timeline by u/Daniel_Arshad:

Arkham Origins:

•Takes place ~two years after Batman began his career.

•Is set 13 years before Arkham Asylum

•Barbara is shown in the game as a tween, let's say she's ~10-12.

Post-Arkham Origins:

•Bruce Wayne adopts Dick Grayson, trains him to be Robin. (12 years prior to AA incident.)
Dick, after 5 years as Robin, moves to Bludhaven for college, becomes Nightwing. (7 years prior to AA incident.)

•Batman confronts Jason Todd trying to steal Batmobile's tires, takes him in to train as second Robin. (6 years prior to AA incident.)

•Batman also begins to train Barbara Gordon, who is now ~16-18 years old. She begins dating Tim Drake at high school. (6 years prior to AA incident.)

•Todd goes out looking for Joker without completing his training, and thus never being Robin. Joker tortures him, fakes his murder, and sends Batman the video. Batman presumes Jason dead. (5 years prior to AA incident.)

•Tim Drake figures out Batman is Bruce Wayne, Barbara is Batgirl, and Dick Grayson was Robin. Tim being Barbara's boyfriend before becoming Robin makes most sense to me as it gives the character, who is older than his comic book counterpart, to put his detective skills into deducing what Barbara is up to during training/fighting crime. Bruce, forced by the situation, and likely afraid that Tim will begin to accompany Barbara during missions untrained, takes him in and trains him. Hence the reason he "replaced" Jason so quick, as Joker said. (4 years prior AA incident.)

•A Matter of Family incident happens. The Killing Joke happens within the same year. Joker being held in Arkham at the beginning of the book ( or supposed to, any way) can be because of Batgirl, and the first time he's been captured since "murdering" Jason. Hence Batman going in to speak to him, thinking of the end and all that. ( 3 years prior to AA.)

So, this means that Barbara has been Batgirl for 3 years before her paralysis, and since been Oracle for another 3 years. It also puts her age during AA around 23-25. Tim I'd presume is younger than her, no older than 20 during AA. This would also make Tim's duration as Robin as around 6 years or so during Arkham Knight, on par with the 5 years Dick spent as Robin. Speaking of which, Bruce during Arkham Asylum is 36-38, which seems about right for Batman's "prime age" in the comics.
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby BiGbAdBaTz » Jul 9th, 2015, 1:05 am

Stop trying to put numbers on everything. Just know the chronology.
Initiation
Origins
Cold cold Heart
A matter of family
Arkham asylum
Arkham city
Harley Quinns Revenge
Harley Quinn AK dlc
Arkham Knight
red Hood story
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Batman: QUIET!
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby Red leader » Jul 9th, 2015, 1:30 am

sdhawan173 wrote:After seeing Tim Drake in the Batgirl DLC trailer today, I was a little confused with how this all fit into the timeline of the games. I was on the Batman Arkham Subreddit today and saw this great explanation of the timeline by u/Daniel_Arshad:

Arkham Origins:

•Takes place ~two years after Batman began his career.

•Is set 13 years before Arkham Asylum

•Barbara is shown in the game as a tween, let's say she's ~10-12.

Post-Arkham Origins:

•Bruce Wayne adopts Dick Grayson, trains him to be Robin. (12 years prior to AA incident.)
Dick, after 5 years as Robin, moves to Bludhaven for college, becomes Nightwing. (7 years prior to AA incident.)

•Batman confronts Jason Todd trying to steal Batmobile's tires, takes him in to train as second Robin. (6 years prior to AA incident.)

•Batman also begins to train Barbara Gordon, who is now ~16-18 years old. She begins dating Tim Drake at high school. (6 years prior to AA incident.)

•Todd goes out looking for Joker without completing his training, and thus never being Robin. Joker tortures him, fakes his murder, and sends Batman the video. Batman presumes Jason dead. (5 years prior to AA incident.)

•Tim Drake figures out Batman is Bruce Wayne, Barbara is Batgirl, and Dick Grayson was Robin. Tim being Barbara's boyfriend before becoming Robin makes most sense to me as it gives the character, who is older than his comic book counterpart, to put his detective skills into deducing what Barbara is up to during training/fighting crime. Bruce, forced by the situation, and likely afraid that Tim will begin to accompany Barbara during missions untrained, takes him in and trains him. Hence the reason he "replaced" Jason so quick, as Joker said. (4 years prior AA incident.)

•A Matter of Family incident happens. The Killing Joke happens within the same year. Joker being held in Arkham at the beginning of the book ( or supposed to, any way) can be because of Batgirl, and the first time he's been captured since "murdering" Jason. Hence Batman going in to speak to him, thinking of the end and all that. ( 3 years prior to AA.)

So, this means that Barbara has been Batgirl for 3 years before her paralysis, and since been Oracle for another 3 years. It also puts her age during AA around 23-25. Tim I'd presume is younger than her, no older than 20 during AA. This would also make Tim's duration as Robin as around 6 years or so during Arkham Knight, on par with the 5 years Dick spent as Robin. Speaking of which, Bruce during Arkham Asylum is 36-38, which seems about right for Batman's "prime age" in the comics.

The problem with this is that tim seems to be in his late teens in city. Also babs is not a tween in origins, she was like 16. The other problem is that they seem to imply babs and dick having dated in the past. tim seems way to close to dicks age if he was involved in "a matter of family". It seems like the arkham games are doing the same thing that we are dealing with in new 52. I wish they just did what they did in asylum and have it been the comic universe and then create stuff from there or create a definite timeline and dont flip flop.
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby PriestlyBlock67 » Jul 9th, 2015, 4:39 am

This explanation had 2 massive holes

#1Batman has been Batman for 11 years maximum


#2If Jason was killed before Barbara became Batgirl, how would he know her in AK?
How would he know that she became oracle?????????????
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby BuNKiTZ » Jul 9th, 2015, 6:25 am

We're not supposed to put numbers on these things as it's a comic-based universe, but Rocksteady decided to do so in Knight. Now we know that since the events of Arkham Origins, it's been 10 years. That means Arkham Asylum takes place 8 years after Origins. Not 13.

Again, I don't want to put numbers on them, but Rocksteady did so I can't deny that.

At the latest, let's say A Matter of Family takes place a year before Asylum. That's 7 years after Origins. In those 7 years, according to WBGM and Rocksteady, Bruce took in Dick, trained him, fought crime with him, sent him off to Bludhaven, took Jason in, trained him, fought crime with him, lost him, searched for him, took Tim in, and trained him. Trained him enough that he'd be as competent as he is in A Matter of Family.

Unless, for some reason, WBGM decided to use Tim's model in the trailer to hide the fact that it's actually Jason. Which wouldn't make no sense as showing him there won't spoil Arkham Knight's story in any way. It only would by telling us that Jason was Robin, which we all already know.

In Origins, I believe Barbara was either 14 or 15. This would mean that in Knight, she's 25 or so. Going by what I said earlier, that would put her at 21 or 22 in A Matter of Family. Seems to fit the bill. She's definitely not a teenager by then anymore.

I'm also assuming that Barbara gets paralyzed either at the end of A Matter of Family or soon after. It would make sense, too. Joker does it to get to Gordon. Perhaps he gets pissed off at him in A Matter of Family, right? That fits the DLC's theme and title. So the "flashback" we have in Knight would put Barbara at 21 or 22 years old. Again, it fits. She looks about that age.

This would leave her one year to recover (psychologically) from her paralysis and become Oracle. That's a bit of a stretch to say that she adapted that quickly since, to me, it feels like she's been Oracle for a while by the time of Asylum. You know, if we go by the assumption that A Matter of Family takes place roughly one year before Asylum. If you push it farther back, it'll only worsen things as Tim will have been Robin even longer and thus Dick and Jason less. Plus, Barbara's age might not fit so well anymore.

Ugh. Rocksteady shouldn't have put a number on it.
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby TFDutchman » Jul 9th, 2015, 8:17 am

It's 7 years between Origins and Asylum, 18 months between Asylum and City, 18 months between City and Knight.

3 Robins and a Batgirl in the span of 7 years is easy.

So the rough order of events would be:

- Initiation
- Origins
- Cold, Cold Heart
- Dick becomes Robin
- Barbara becomes Batgirl
- Dick becomes Nightwing, Jason becomes Robin
- Jason captured
- Tim becomes Robin
- A Matter of Family
- Barbara is paralysed and becomes Oracle
- Arkham Asylum
- Arkham City
- Harley Quinn's Revenge
- Harley Quinn Story Pack
- Arkham Knight
- Red Hood Story Pack

Todd would learn of Barbara's paralysation and becoming Oracle simply by studying Batman. It's clear from photos in the Arkham Knight HQ that Todd has been keeping them under surveillance and has photos of them.

Overall timespan is 10 years between Origins and Knight as confirmed from comments regarding Firefly. The last time Firefly was seen in Gotham was during the events of Origins.
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby MooCow » Jul 9th, 2015, 3:32 pm

True that firefly hasent been seen in Gotham for about ten years but they never specify the bridge incident. Also the firefighters speak of firefly as an old trouble maker yet if he only attacked once in origins then he couldn't have made a name for himself from just one incident. Furthermore firefly's past is never fully explained in the game unlike deathstroke who clearly states that he and batman fought on a ship.

Firefly only states that he and batman fought a long time ago.

Now with the knowledge that WB Montreal is working on a new batman game, I think it is very possible for firefly to make an appearance in a sequel.
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby BuNKiTZ » Jul 9th, 2015, 5:36 pm

MooCow wrote:True that firefly hasent been seen in Gotham for about ten years but they never specify the bridge incident. Also the firefighters speak of firefly as an old trouble maker yet if he only attacked once in origins then he couldn't have made a name for himself from just one incident. Furthermore firefly's past is never fully explained in the game unlike deathstroke who clearly states that he and batman fought on a ship.

Firefly only states that he and batman fought a long time ago.

Now with the knowledge that WB Montreal is working on a new batman game, I think it is very possible for firefly to make an appearance in a sequel.

One of Firefly's lines is "[...] for leaving me in that bridge!" or something like that. I believe there were also other instances where Firefly is said to have only appeared in Gotham once.
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby alecconroy » Jul 9th, 2015, 6:58 pm

Two face was created probably exactly between origns and asylum. He was just beginning to enter elections as an unknown in origins.
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby M. Malone » Jul 9th, 2015, 11:51 pm

BuNKiTZ wrote:
MooCow wrote:True that firefly hasent been seen in Gotham for about ten years but they never specify the bridge incident. Also the firefighters speak of firefly as an old trouble maker yet if he only attacked once in origins then he couldn't have made a name for himself from just one incident. Furthermore firefly's past is never fully explained in the game unlike deathstroke who clearly states that he and batman fought on a ship.

Firefly only states that he and batman fought a long time ago.

Now with the knowledge that WB Montreal is working on a new batman game, I think it is very possible for firefly to make an appearance in a sequel.

One of Firefly's lines is "[...] for leaving me in that bridge!" or something like that. I believe there were also other instances where Firefly is said to have only appeared in Gotham once.


There was a newspaper in AA about Firefly. It was a riddle. If we are taking every single thing in the Arkhamverse at face value, that newspaper should hold some weight regarding multiple appearances.

Me, I'm trying not to get too worked up about specific numbers. The theory presented in the OP is sound, logically speaking. I choose to believe what makes sense logically, not simply what numbers are thrown around in dialogue.
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby TheSythe » Jul 10th, 2015, 1:18 am

At the time of Asylum (which this could change in the upcoming DLC) Tim wasn't even Robin. Joker made a comment that he would give him Harley, stating that it's about time he needed a new side kick. From this we can learn two things, a; Tim wasn't Robin yet, and b; Jason was at the Asylum during the riots. This is last point is obvious because Tim became Robin while Jason was still being held, meaning that if Joker had already taken Jason, but Tim wasn't Robin yet, then he must've been at the Asylum at the time of the riots. From this we can construct a timeline
Confirmed Events:
Year II (Christmas): Blackgate Riots occur, Black Mask hires eight assassins to kill Batman
Barbara Gordon: 15
Batman: 28
Year II (New Year's): Ferris Boyle is taken hostage by one Mr. Fries
Year II (Early Spring): A second riot occurs at Blackgate
Year VIII (Season Unknown): Task Force X, under the direction of Amanda Waller, break into Arkham Asylum.
Year X (February): Joker escapes from Arkham Asylum
Year X (Late Winter-Early Spring): Jason Todd is taken hostage
Year X (April): Riots occur at Arkham Asylum
Year XI (January): Protocol 10 is Activated
Year XI (February): Harley Quinn takes officers hostage
Year XI (October): Scarecrow attacks Gotham, Knightfall protocol activated.
I'de say that A Matter of Family happened a couple of weeks before Asylum happened, during Joker's escape, perhaps it leads to the Capture at the hands of the Joker. Right here is confirmed stuff, really there's no speculation, all of it is confirmed.
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby BuNKiTZ » Jul 10th, 2015, 8:24 am

M. Malone wrote:
BuNKiTZ wrote:
MooCow wrote:True that firefly hasent been seen in Gotham for about ten years but they never specify the bridge incident. Also the firefighters speak of firefly as an old trouble maker yet if he only attacked once in origins then he couldn't have made a name for himself from just one incident. Furthermore firefly's past is never fully explained in the game unlike deathstroke who clearly states that he and batman fought on a ship.

Firefly only states that he and batman fought a long time ago.

Now with the knowledge that WB Montreal is working on a new batman game, I think it is very possible for firefly to make an appearance in a sequel.

One of Firefly's lines is "[...] for leaving me in that bridge!" or something like that. I believe there were also other instances where Firefly is said to have only appeared in Gotham once.


There was a newspaper in AA about Firefly. It was a riddle. If we are taking every single thing in the Arkhamverse at face value, that newspaper should hold some weight regarding multiple appearances.

Me, I'm trying not to get too worked up about specific numbers. The theory presented in the OP is sound, logically speaking. I choose to believe what makes sense logically, not simply what numbers are thrown around in dialogue.

Yeah, I immediately thought of that too the second I heard that Firefly had supposedly only appeared once in Gotham. Rocksteady fucked themselves over with this.

TheSythe wrote:I'de say that A Matter of Family happened a couple of weeks before Asylum happened, during Joker's escape, perhaps it leads to the Capture at the hands of the Joker. Right here is confirmed stuff, really there's no speculation, all of it is confirmed.

So in just a few weeks, if we assume she is paralyzed at the end of A Matter of Family, she recovers (psychologically) from her paralysis, and assumes the role of Oracle. Complete with all the equipment? I'd say A Matter of Family took at least a year before Asylum, ending with her paralysis.

---

So I've been thinking the whole Tim as Robin before Asylum thing, and as stupid as it is, I guess it's not impossible. It's still ridiculous, but it could happen.

Six months after Jason was captured, Tim was already Robin. Hence the photo Joker showed him. I believe the six months I'm referring to was mentioned during the scene? I'm not sure about that, but I'm quite certain. Point is, six months after "The Fall," Tim was already Robin. Bruce is a dick. You barely searched for Jason, did you? Asshole. That's why your parents are dead.

Normally, I would argue that six months is too short a time for Bruce to search for Jason, meet Tim, and then train him enough to have him ready to be the new Robin. However, one thing Bruce would not have needed to train Tim much in would be detective work because Tim has his own self-taught detective skills and is a better detective than Batman--in the comics, anyway. As for the physical work, Tim was said to be spending his free time fighting in underground cage matches. Thus his thug look. I suppose we can assume that he'd been doing that for quite some time already since he did want to become Robin. You can't be Robin if you're not capable of fighting well, right? So it's a stretch, but I guess in those six months, all of that did happen.

Another six months or so later, Jason would escape from the asylum and begin plotting vengeance on his former mentor. All of that, supposedly, took place before A Matter of Family. Unless, of course, in A Matter of Family, Tim had just began working as Robin. Because it's only six months after Tim started that Jason escapes the asylum. But that would be ridiculous because I doubt a noob would be able to help Batgirl take on all of Joker's henchmen like that.

Speaking of Batgirl, I don't know their source for this, but according to the Arkham City wiki, Barbara started two years after Origins. It makes sense to me as she was clearly going to be Batgirl soon after Origins. I'd like to think that she became Batgirl before Robin entered the picture. Would be an interesting change.
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby Red leader » Jul 10th, 2015, 10:14 am

BuNKiTZ wrote:
M. Malone wrote:
BuNKiTZ wrote:
MooCow wrote:True that firefly hasent been seen in Gotham for about ten years but they never specify the bridge incident. Also the firefighters speak of firefly as an old trouble maker yet if he only attacked once in origins then he couldn't have made a name for himself from just one incident. Furthermore firefly's past is never fully explained in the game unlike deathstroke who clearly states that he and batman fought on a ship.

Firefly only states that he and batman fought a long time ago.

Now with the knowledge that WB Montreal is working on a new batman game, I think it is very possible for firefly to make an appearance in a sequel.

One of Firefly's lines is "[...] for leaving me in that bridge!" or something like that. I believe there were also other instances where Firefly is said to have only appeared in Gotham once.


There was a newspaper in AA about Firefly. It was a riddle. If we are taking every single thing in the Arkhamverse at face value, that newspaper should hold some weight regarding multiple appearances.

Me, I'm trying not to get too worked up about specific numbers. The theory presented in the OP is sound, logically speaking. I choose to believe what makes sense logically, not simply what numbers are thrown around in dialogue.

Yeah, I immediately thought of that too the second I heard that Firefly had supposedly only appeared once in Gotham. Rocksteady fucked themselves over with this.

TheSythe wrote:I'de say that A Matter of Family happened a couple of weeks before Asylum happened, during Joker's escape, perhaps it leads to the Capture at the hands of the Joker. Right here is confirmed stuff, really there's no speculation, all of it is confirmed.

So in just a few weeks, if we assume she is paralyzed at the end of A Matter of Family, she recovers (psychologically) from her paralysis, and assumes the role of Oracle. Complete with all the equipment? I'd say A Matter of Family took at least a year before Asylum, ending with her paralysis.

---

So I've been thinking the whole Tim as Robin before Asylum thing, and as stupid as it is, I guess it's not impossible. It's still ridiculous, but it could happen.

Six months after Jason was captured, Tim was already Robin. Hence the photo Joker showed him. I believe the six months I'm referring to was mentioned during the scene? I'm not sure about that, but I'm quite certain. Point is, six months after "The Fall," Tim was already Robin. Bruce is a dick. You barely searched for Jason, did you? Asshole. That's why your parents are dead.

Normally, I would argue that six months is too short a time for Bruce to search for Jason, meet Tim, and then train him enough to have him ready to be the new Robin. However, one thing Bruce would not have needed to train Tim much in would be detective work because Tim has his own self-taught detective skills and is a better detective than Batman--in the comics, anyway. As for the physical work, Tim was said to be spending his free time fighting in underground cage matches. Thus his thug look. I suppose we can assume that he'd been doing that for quite some time already since he did want to become Robin. You can't be Robin if you're not capable of fighting well, right? So it's a stretch, but I guess in those six months, all of that did happen.

Another six months or so later, Jason would escape from the asylum and begin plotting vengeance on his former mentor. All of that, supposedly, took place before A Matter of Family. Unless, of course, in A Matter of Family, Tim had just began working as Robin. Because it's only six months after Tim started that Jason escapes the asylum. But that would be ridiculous because I doubt a noob would be able to help Batgirl take on all of Joker's henchmen like that.

Speaking of Batgirl, I don't know their source for this, but according to the Arkham City wiki, Barbara started two years after Origins. It makes sense to me as she was clearly going to be Batgirl soon after Origins. I'd like to think that she became Batgirl before Robin entered the picture. Would be an interesting change.

So just like the batman.
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby M. Malone » Jul 10th, 2015, 2:10 pm

^^^ All of this.

The thing is, you can't cram 75 years of continuity into a decade or so of real time. Stories have to go, origins have to be retconned.

We just have to accept that the Arkhamverse is only LOOSELY based on the comics continuity. This timeline CAN work, if we just open our minds up a little.

As an example: When the Joker made his comment about Bats needing a new sidekick in the Asylum, there's nothing in that statement that excludes the idea that Batman cannot have more than one sidekick. Perhaps Dick and Tim were running around with Batman at the same time? Or Tim and Barbara? The Joker could have been referring to Barbara being gone, especially since we now know that in this 'verse, Tim and Babs worked together at least for a while. Or he could've been referring to the first Robin (Dick) who is no longer around as a sidekick. Or he could have been referring to Jason. It really doesn't matter who his comment was about. If the Joker, or anyone, was used to seeing Batman teaming up with 2 or three other vigilantes, the assumption is that it's Batman's 'team.' The absence of just one of those team members would be noticed. Using a sports analogy: If a team loses one of its players to injury or penalty and they are playing one man short, or missing a key contributor, the comment could be made "Looks like they could use another Point Guard/Forward/Wide Receiver/Goalie/etc.."

So in conclusion, saying "You need a new sidekick" doesn't have to exclude the possibility that Tim was Robin during the events of the Asylum.

The more I think about it, the more okay I am with this continuity. And I am especially okay with Barbara being Bruce's first sidekick. It gives her a certain air a maturity. A sexy, motherly/mentor quality about her, which has always suited her well, especially after becoming Oracle. :I :oldyella:
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby Hobgoblin » Jul 12th, 2015, 6:34 pm

TheSythe wrote:Year II (New Year's): Ferris Boyle is taken hostage by one Mr. Fries
Year II (Early Spring): A second riot occurs at Blackgate


Wouldn't these be Year 3?
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