Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby Ebbtide » Jul 13th, 2015, 2:06 am

I was thinking about this as I played Origins, and especially as I played Knight, and even more so as I wrote for the contest here (viewtopic.php?p=557602#p557602). Barbara seemed older in Asylum, like someone in her late 20's, so I took her to be somewhat in her early 20's in Origins, as she was working for the GCPD in a technical capacity. Considering that, it's also strange to consider the relationship of her and Tim, though we're never told Tim's age. It's hard to tell if he's supposed to be a younger male or an adult, as we have to consider that Dick and Jason have to occur.

If we lightly consider the multiplayer to Arkham Origins as any sort of reference, the Robin there, who I just assume is Dick, is definitely young, but older. If that model is Dick and he were to join he would be an older teen, and not some young boy who is orphaned. That could help explain his short time with Bruce, as he could be physically active enough to not require a long training period, yet could also fracture from Bruce after 2 or 3 years, leading to Jason.

With Jason, we know so little about him in this series. All we know is that he was captured and held at Arkham, and he believes it to be over a year. But this is where it can be interesting. See, when I was writing the story, part of what I wanted to have with Jason's capture is the mental torture. He believes he was in there for a year, but when in captivity the Joker could've told him any time, day, or month and he may have believed it. While it is true that when he finally escaped he'd know the year, who knows how broken he was. It clearly took him years to assemble both himself and an army to finally go after Batman, but we don't know just when he was working with and taken from Batman.

I mentioned in another thread (viewtopic.php?p=558129#p558129) that there's a building near the entry gates of the Asylum that looks broken and exposed (it's where you emerge from when you first leave the sewers). I speculated for the sake of the narrative that maybe that's where Jason was held, with the Joker eventually blowing that structure up. For all we know, the Joker could've been a patient at the Asylum during periods, and was allowed access to his captive by Harley Quinn. It's would make for a very demented storyline, as the whole time Batman believed the Joker locked away, he really was able to torture the missing Robin via Harley's obsession while still working at the Asylum.

Again, this is all hypothetical, and is trying to tie elements together with established characters, location and an really uncertain timeline. But following this, it is plausible that Tim is relatively new as Batman's partner, which could be why Joker doesn't recognize him in the Arkham City freeflow map. But it would also greatly contradict any way that Tim could be in the A Matter of Family DLC.

We also have to remember that Gordon seems to have no idea that Barbara was Batgirl or that she is Oracle, so we have no other way of referencing when she was paralyzed, as Gordon says nothing of it to Batman during his confrontation with him. It could be closer to prior to the Asylum incident, or years before it.
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby The_prophet » Jul 13th, 2015, 3:43 am

I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but I heard a thug say "firefly huh? It's been what 10 years since the last time we seen him?" or at least something like that. :adam:
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby BuNKiTZ » Jul 13th, 2015, 5:49 am

Ebbtide wrote:I was thinking about this as I played Origins, and especially as I played Knight, and even more so as I wrote for the contest here (viewtopic.php?p=557602#p557602). Barbara seemed older in Asylum, like someone in her late 20's, so I took her to be somewhat in her early 20's in Origins, as she was working for the GCPD in a technical capacity. Considering that, it's also strange to consider the relationship of her and Tim, though we're never told Tim's age. It's hard to tell if he's supposed to be a younger male or an adult, as we have to consider that Dick and Jason have to occur.

Sorry, but how on Earth could you possibly think that Barbara is in her early 20's in Origins...? She's a teenager there. At most, she's 16. :I
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby TFDutchman » Jul 13th, 2015, 3:48 pm

Kinda just hit me that Tim of course would be Robin before the events of Asylum. I remember it being established that Todd as the Knight was monitoring the events of Asylum and Tim was Robin while Todd was still in captivity so the complaints about Tim being in the Batgirl DLC is kinda moot. To be somewhat fair with time you would have to think the Tim was Robin, and Barbara became Oracle, at least 1-2 years before Asylum.

The canon isn't the cleanest, but they definitely set it up that Todd was Knight even before the events of Asylum.
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby Ebbtide » Jul 13th, 2015, 3:49 pm

BuNKiTZ wrote:
Ebbtide wrote:I was thinking about this as I played Origins, and especially as I played Knight, and even more so as I wrote for the contest here (viewtopic.php?p=557602#p557602). Barbara seemed older in Asylum, like someone in her late 20's, so I took her to be somewhat in her early 20's in Origins, as she was working for the GCPD in a technical capacity. Considering that, it's also strange to consider the relationship of her and Tim, though we're never told Tim's age. It's hard to tell if he's supposed to be a younger male or an adult, as we have to consider that Dick and Jason have to occur.

Sorry, but how on Earth could you possibly think that Barbara is in her early 20's in Origins...? She's a teenager there. At most, she's 16. :I

Because she's working for the GCPD. I don't believe the child prodigy concept, especially since in this franchise all of them are older than they would have them to be in the comics. With this series they have tried to make things more grounded, especially in Origins, and so she seemed like a young woman, and not a teenager just hanging around her dads job. It also fits with how she seems older in Asylum to Knight, like a girl in her later 20's.

You can still be 20-21 and disagree with your parents.
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby redhood1234 » Jul 13th, 2015, 4:31 pm

Ebbtide wrote:
BuNKiTZ wrote:
Ebbtide wrote:I was thinking about this as I played Origins, and especially as I played Knight, and even more so as I wrote for the contest here (viewtopic.php?p=557602#p557602). Barbara seemed older in Asylum, like someone in her late 20's, so I took her to be somewhat in her early 20's in Origins, as she was working for the GCPD in a technical capacity. Considering that, it's also strange to consider the relationship of her and Tim, though we're never told Tim's age. It's hard to tell if he's supposed to be a younger male or an adult, as we have to consider that Dick and Jason have to occur.

Sorry, but how on Earth could you possibly think that Barbara is in her early 20's in Origins...? She's a teenager there. At most, she's 16. :I

Because she's working for the GCPD. I don't believe the child prodigy concept, especially since in this franchise all of them are older than they would have them to be in the comics. With this series they have tried to make things more grounded, especially in Origins, and so she seemed like a young woman, and not a teenager just hanging around her dads job. It also fits with how she seems older in Asylum to Knight, like a girl in her later 20's.

You can still be 20-21 and disagree with your parents.

It was confirmed before Origins that Barbara was 15 ( I don't remember where it said it)
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby Ebbtide » Jul 13th, 2015, 4:59 pm

redhood1234 wrote:
Ebbtide wrote:
BuNKiTZ wrote:
Ebbtide wrote:I was thinking about this as I played Origins, and especially as I played Knight, and even more so as I wrote for the contest here (viewtopic.php?p=557602#p557602). Barbara seemed older in Asylum, like someone in her late 20's, so I took her to be somewhat in her early 20's in Origins, as she was working for the GCPD in a technical capacity. Considering that, it's also strange to consider the relationship of her and Tim, though we're never told Tim's age. It's hard to tell if he's supposed to be a younger male or an adult, as we have to consider that Dick and Jason have to occur.

Sorry, but how on Earth could you possibly think that Barbara is in her early 20's in Origins...? She's a teenager there. At most, she's 16. :I

Because she's working for the GCPD. I don't believe the child prodigy concept, especially since in this franchise all of them are older than they would have them to be in the comics. With this series they have tried to make things more grounded, especially in Origins, and so she seemed like a young woman, and not a teenager just hanging around her dads job. It also fits with how she seems older in Asylum to Knight, like a girl in her later 20's.

You can still be 20-21 and disagree with your parents.

It was confirmed before Origins that Barbara was 15 ( I don't remember where it said it)
It

I've looked for this but can't find any source saying 15. I had initially posted late teens to early 20's, because I could understand her being 18-19, but removed that because it just didn't seem right with the timeline. She'd have to be at least 18 to be working there. There's no way a 15-16 year old would be accessing that equipment. Her dad's not even the Commissioner yet, so he can't pull strings like that.

This is what is getting me about this timeline. I just wish Rocksteady would release a solid synopsis so we could understand the story. I found the muddy story of Knight to be distracting because of how much backstory needed to be thrown out to convey what was happening, but all it did was make me wonder just how quickly Bruce was churning out Robins.

If I'm wrong about the age then I apologize, but I'm just trying to understand the story.
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby BuNKiTZ » Jul 13th, 2015, 5:41 pm

Ebbtide wrote:
BuNKiTZ wrote:
Ebbtide wrote:I was thinking about this as I played Origins, and especially as I played Knight, and even more so as I wrote for the contest here (viewtopic.php?p=557602#p557602). Barbara seemed older in Asylum, like someone in her late 20's, so I took her to be somewhat in her early 20's in Origins, as she was working for the GCPD in a technical capacity. Considering that, it's also strange to consider the relationship of her and Tim, though we're never told Tim's age. It's hard to tell if he's supposed to be a younger male or an adult, as we have to consider that Dick and Jason have to occur.

Sorry, but how on Earth could you possibly think that Barbara is in her early 20's in Origins...? She's a teenager there. At most, she's 16. :I

Because she's working for the GCPD. I don't believe the child prodigy concept, especially since in this franchise all of them are older than they would have them to be in the comics. With this series they have tried to make things more grounded, especially in Origins, and so she seemed like a young woman, and not a teenager just hanging around her dads job. It also fits with how she seems older in Asylum to Knight, like a girl in her later 20's.

You can still be 20-21 and disagree with your parents.

...Holy crap. :I

Dude. She was visiting. Do you not see her height? Her face? Does she look like she's 20 to you?
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby Harvey Bullock » Jul 13th, 2015, 5:52 pm

Yeah she wasn't actually working for the GCPD and I recall Holmes saying at one point that she was around 14 years old. Dialogue makes explicit reference to the fact that Gordon doesn't want her at the building too if I recall and that she's meddling.
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby Red_Hood » Jul 13th, 2015, 5:57 pm

So for the whole Robin thing to make sense. Basically you have to make Batman not care for his sons at all.
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby Ebbtide » Jul 13th, 2015, 7:40 pm

BuNKiTZ wrote:...Holy crap. :I

Dude. She was visiting. Do you not see her height? Her face? Does she look like she's 20 to you?

She looks 20, yes. I know many women who look young into their early 20's. The body she's shown does not match a 14-16 year olds body. Also, the height is flawed. In the game she is barely shorter than Gordon, who is 6' in the games. Yet when I looked her information up the game says she's supposed to be 5'2, which would be dramatically shorter than she appears in the scenes. I'm 6', my sister is 5'1, so the height variance doesn't appear correctly.

The game never tells her age, so because the way the series aged the other two sidekicks at that point (Dick and TIm aren't young in their City skins), it made sense that she'd be older when meeting Batman for the first time to fit with the Oracle voice from the Asylum forward.

Harvey Bullock wrote:Yeah she wasn't actually working for the GCPD and I recall Holmes saying at one point that she was around 14 years old. Dialogue makes explicit reference to the fact that Gordon doesn't want her at the building too if I recall and that she's meddling.

The issue was the way it's handled in telling us this. In the game we see her arguing with Gordon over his view of Batman. She then leaves and heads to computer area. Batman and she talk and she reveals a lot of information about the data room and how to connect to it, with Batman even commenting that she must be here a lot. That implied to me that she worked there and knew the systems really well.

She later informs Batman of the missing weapons caches, and then tells him she's going through and deleting false information about the Batman in the Gotham files. Again, that implied to me that she had access to that sort of secure information. Batman needed high tech gadgets to break into the GCPD files, so it's not like she just hacked this stuff.

The storyline of a younger woman, in her late teens or early twenties working for the technical division of the police department with access to and knowledge of how things worked there made far more sense to me than some young girl yelling at her dad, meeting a masked hero and informing him in full detail how to access a secured area, then feeding him information on sidequests and altering files within the database.

As for her older age, you have to remember that WB Montreal also told us that Origins took place 5 years before Asylum, so her age of 14 seems way off. That would imply that she was paralyzed at around 18 or 19. I know Rocksteady has now changed that, but the prior timeline and the current timeline, the issue we're talking about here, are so hard to understand, which is why I'm trying to interpret it.
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby BuNKiTZ » Jul 14th, 2015, 8:03 am

Ebbtide wrote:She looks 20, yes. I know many women who look young into their early 20's. The body she's shown does not match a 14-16 year olds body. Also, the height is flawed. In the game she is barely shorter than Gordon, who is 6' in the games. Yet when I looked her information up the game says she's supposed to be 5'2, which would be dramatically shorter than she appears in the scenes. I'm 6', my sister is 5'1, so the height variance doesn't appear correctly.

The game never tells her age, so because the way the series aged the other two sidekicks at that point (Dick and TIm aren't young in their City skins), it made sense that she'd be older when meeting Batman for the first time to fit with the Oracle voice from the Asylum forward.

...Just, wow. :I
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby TFDutchman » Jul 14th, 2015, 11:21 am

Oracle is 15 in Origins which makes her 22 in Asylum and 25 at the time of Knight. I'm putting A Matter Of Family around 2-3 years prior to Asylum so she'd be 19-20 as Batgirl. Tim seems to be the same age. Dick is likely 2-3 years older depending on how old he was when he became Robin. I'd like to think the Bruce of the Arkhamverse wouldn't allow a minor under 18 to become a Robin which in my head would make him 2 years older than Barbara and Tim. Jason maybe right in the middle. A year younger than Dick and a year older than Tim and Barbara.

So my head canon as such:
- Christmas AO, Batman is 27 at the time of Origins, Barbara and Tim are 15
- AO+1 - Dick, 18, becomes Robin
- AO+2 - Dick, 19, becomes Nightwing. Jason, 18, becomes Robin.
- AO+3 - Jason captured. Tim and Barbara, 18, become Robin and Batgirl
- AO+4 - A Matter Of Family
- AO+5 - Barbara, 20, paralysed and becomes Oracle
- AO+6
- August AO+7 - Arkham Asylum
- February AO+9 - Arkham City
- October AO+10 - Arkham Knight

You can move some events around to potentially have Dick as Robin longer, or Jason for longer, depending on how long you imagine Barbara was Oracle prior to Asylum.
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby ClownprinceOfCrime » Jul 14th, 2015, 12:36 pm

Ebbtide wrote:
BuNKiTZ wrote:
Ebbtide wrote:I was thinking about this as I played Origins, and especially as I played Knight, and even more so as I wrote for the contest here (viewtopic.php?p=557602#p557602). Barbara seemed older in Asylum, like someone in her late 20's, so I took her to be somewhat in her early 20's in Origins, as she was working for the GCPD in a technical capacity. Considering that, it's also strange to consider the relationship of her and Tim, though we're never told Tim's age. It's hard to tell if he's supposed to be a younger male or an adult, as we have to consider that Dick and Jason have to occur.

Sorry, but how on Earth could you possibly think that Barbara is in her early 20's in Origins...? She's a teenager there. At most, she's 16. :I

Because she's working for the GCPD. I don't believe the child prodigy concept, especially since in this franchise all of them are older than they would have them to be in the comics. With this series they have tried to make things more grounded, especially in Origins, and so she seemed like a young woman, and not a teenager just hanging around her dads job. It also fits with how she seems older in Asylum to Knight, like a girl in her later 20's.

You can still be 20-21 and disagree with your parents.


1. She's not working for the GCPD. She never has and never will, at least in the Arkhamverse.
2. She even said she was 15 at this point. Just listen to Gordon's audio tape.
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Re: Explanation of the Arkhamverse Timeline

Postby Ebbtide » Jul 14th, 2015, 5:40 pm

ClownprinceOfCrime wrote:1. She's not working for the GCPD. She never has and never will, at least in the Arkhamverse.
2. She even said she was 15 at this point. Just listen to Gordon's audio tape.

Thanks, I found that tape.
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