Predator Has Been Downgraded

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Predator Has Been Downgraded

Postby Shadow of the Bat » Jul 14th, 2015, 2:48 am

Combat and predator, those two are the things that makes the Arkham games so unique and noticeable, every game until now has added a little to each of these features to keep it fresh and fun.
But for some reason, it seems Arkham Knight's predator has been downgraded, here are some examples:

-No ledge inverted takedowns
-No grate instant takedowns
-No Batclaw to take thugs off ledges
-No Batarang, explosive gel, line launcher or glide kick to throw thugs off ledges, leaders and such.
-No double Takedowns without fear this includes double ledge takedowns.
-No disarm and counter takedown.
-No tight rope takedown (ala cool Arkham Origins)
-No high rope takedown (again from Arkham Origins, and its weird we can't, considering that just by pressing triangle in a rope you cant swich into line launcher)

Now you can do silent takedowns in pretty much every position, that's good, but taking off this and other takedowns makes the predator feel repetitive and boring.
Come on Rocksteady, you are supposed to improve and add to what we already have, not take some things in exchange for others.
Please notice this and fix it Rocksteady, it would help to make your game perfect.
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Re: Predator Has Been Downgraded

Postby Prisoner 4011 » Jul 14th, 2015, 5:09 am

I disagree. It has been made more fluent and quick, adapting to the new Bat Costume. While I love and miss what AC and AA had to offer, the predator in AK is good enough for me. Most of the takedowns are still there, it's just a little tougher to do them... or they're not as satisfying as they once were.
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Re: Predator Has Been Downgraded

Postby dk09w1ngz » Jul 14th, 2015, 10:08 am

Shadow of the Bat wrote:Combat and predator, those two are the things that makes the Arkham games so unique and noticeable, every game until now has added a little to each of these features to keep it fresh and fun.
But for some reason, it seems Arkham Knight's predator has been downgraded, here are some examples:

-No ledge inverted takedowns
-No grate instant takedowns
-No Batclaw to take thugs off ledges
-No Batarang, explosive gel, line launcher or glide kick to throw thugs off ledges, leaders and such.
-No double Takedowns without fear this includes double ledge takedowns.
-No disarm and counter takedown.
-No tight rope takedown (ala cool Arkham Origins)
-No high rope takedown (again from Arkham Origins, and its weird we can't, considering that just by pressing triangle in a rope you cant swich into line launcher)

Now you can do silent takedowns in pretty much every position, that's good, but taking off this and other takedowns makes the predator feel repetitive and boring.
Come on Rocksteady, you are supposed to improve and add to what we already have, not take some things in exchange for others.
Please notice this and fix it Rocksteady, it would help to make your game perfect.


None of these are actually too bad except batclaw and tight rope takedowns. I hate NOT BEING ABLE TO BATCLAW HENCHMEN OFF.
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Re: Predator Has Been Downgraded

Postby Mani-Man » Jul 14th, 2015, 11:31 am

Im not sure if downgraded is the right word...it has been made faster.
Predator gameplay has been made "simpler".

Im not a really big fan of it, i always liked the predator gameplay as it was.
I spent hours planning and thinking what and how to do.

Downgrading is the wrong word imo, but Rocksteady clearly didnt concentrated their efforts and time as into it the same way they did with the batmobile and combat.
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Re: Predator Has Been Downgraded

Postby BuddyPharaoh » Jul 14th, 2015, 8:03 pm

As I said in another thread ("Is anyone else dissapointed that Rocksteady..."), we got a mixed bag on Predator. That thread was more about the difficulty, though, rather than variety. What applies to variety is that we got a few new things:

- Medics are their own extra mini-game. Three revives (honestly, I wish they could have more!), need cover, produce new opportunites for multi-TDs, can be disrupted.
- Sentries. Circular sweep, can't be lured, can be blinded or disrupted, and can be deployed by goons.
- Boa drones. I see these as the replacement to NV goggle goons (which IIRC are gone).
- Detective mode scanners. No more swinging around in constant det-derp mode after TDing or shocking the jammer. Although this is arguably just one more step - TD the scanner first, then go back to det-derp. But I still like the mechanic - they could improve it by being less stingy with the scanners (and/or letting others pick it up).
- Optical deflectors. Another detective mode foil - they show up much better on normal mode than on detective.
- Chain gunners. Long sequence to TD, and very noisy, so you have to save them for last, or arrange for another feature:
- Environment TDs. Look at these as really cool replacements for grate, ledge inverted, etc. TDs, although I do wish they'd left a lot of those in.
- Voice hack TDs have potential to make the stunts that would've been extra hard in AA / AC much, much easier (well, if the rest of the Bat Family had it - triple escrima stun, I'm looking at you).
- Speedy grate movement. This feels unrealistic (esp. since it seems to go away if you're ever in first-person view for some reason), but I like getting this done with.
- Fear takedowns. I accept this as a replacement for double TDs and ledge double TDS (actually, I thought from-behind double TDs were still possible at Ace Chemical?).
- Vantage points can be mined during a scene, rather than being all rigged or all safe beforehand - you have to be somewhat more careful.

Overall: enemies have somewhat better AI (specifically the AK's forces). Silent TDs have longer range. Disruptors have more use. And Batman has more threats to deal with.

I feel that the AK goons kinda still need more ways to threaten Batman in predator mode, even if the rioters are the same level of haplessness. There are still too many ways for Batman to get safe and just not worry. And I do miss the days of grappling one goon over a ledge after another, although I think that's a good call, given the much higher falls they could take in AK.
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Re: Predator Has Been Downgraded

Postby PriestlyBlock67 » Jul 14th, 2015, 10:34 pm

Predator in AK is amazing, I loved everything they did and added

EXCEPT THE BATCLAW NERF THAT WAS TERRIBLE
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Re: Predator Has Been Downgraded

Postby AW8 » Jul 15th, 2015, 7:51 pm

Mani-Man wrote:Im not sure if downgraded is the right word...it has been made faster.
Predator gameplay has been made "simpler".


I love how corner takedown have been given increased range now, it was so frustrating to be spotted before the thug was in range in previous games.
But that was the only takedown in need of a buff. The new Drop Down Takedown almost feel like a cheat, as does the Swing Down Takedown, because of their silence and their range. Grate Takedown and Ledge Takedown are now silent as well, and Silent Takedown has been given an increased range. Small changes that together make Predator a lot easier. I wouldn't mind them if the enemy threat had increased proportionally, but it hasn't. The enemies are still slow and dumb as rocks, and the Militia special units are not utilized in force enough.

(Oh, and the Minigunner takedown sequence is annoying. Why couldn't it have been a simple beatdown instead of the silly countering?)

I really like how thugs can spot you when you're in the grates now. Sneaking from cover to cover and avoiding "red" grate tiles is never a major point in Predator, but when it happens it is fun.

The thermobaric charge the Militia drop down the grates is great too - although they're so slow in deploying it and too stupid to spread out and check out other points of the grate shaft that dodging it and simply jumping into the grate again is effortless. I even changed my mind once and jumped back in to check how much damage the charge dealt, but I was too slow and didn't catch the blast. Almost harder to get hit by the thermobaric charge than to dodge it. :oldyella:

What they really should have done is to fill the grates with poison gas instead, permanently cutting the player out from using the grate again. Or mine it with a thermobaric charge, forcing the player to use a Disruptor charge in order to access the grate again.

In Arkham City, thugs could shoot down vantage points if they spotted you on them or if you used inverted takedowns. It was a minor annoyance and not really a severe impairment to lose 2 or 3 of the 6 vantage points in the room. In Arkham Knight, from what I've seen, you need to perform an inverted takedown in order for them to mine that vantage point - and that vantage point only. Furthermore, the mine doesn't even go off or alarm the thugs if you grapple to that vantage point, you need to stay on it for several seconds. The thugs' anti-vantage point tactics are even less threatening than in Arkham City. :oldyella:
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Re: Predator Has Been Downgraded

Postby BuNKiTZ » Jul 15th, 2015, 8:38 pm

Predator has changed. That much is true. To say that it's "downgraded," would be wrong. I think what would be more accurate is that it took 2 steps forward and 1 step back. It is a simple fact that they've added a lot more to it by making it more challenging, adding new enemy types, and new ways to take your enemies down. The ability to interact with your environment via Remote Hacking Device alone can be seen as an upgrade. But yes, I can definitely see why you would say it was downgraded. I was sorely disappointed when Batman didn't flip out of the floor grate anymore. But otherwise? I really like all the changes.

I didn't know we can't pull thugs off of ledges anymore, though. That's a real shame.

While it does feel easier in some ways, because of how we can do Swing Down Takedowns, Drop Down Takedowns, and pretty much all the others silently, I still see it as having generally improved. Still, those make sense to me. A natural progression of Batman's abilities, if you will. After all, Batman's at the peak of his abilities as Rocksteady has said on numerous occasions prior to the game's release.

I really do love the Swing Down Takedown, though. It's just so smooth how Batman swings down and spins around a bit then knocks the poor sap out.

The new additions are great, though. We've got medics who can revive downed thugs, Boa drones, optic deflection armor soldiers, and many more. I especially love the Remote Hacking Device, as I've said earlier, because it's really fun messing with the thugs. The Voice Synthesizer feels a little OP, however, the way we can just tell thugs and soldiers where to go to set them up for a takedown, etc. It's got a limited use, though, so it doesn't make things too easy. I usually find myself only able to use it twice during Predator challenges.

Overall, though, I suppose it is easier. Thermobaric Charges aren't dangerous at all as they barely damage you, but it is pretty great that they'll take a look at the grates now. It's especially useful that we can see which ones they can see. Though, hmm, yeah, I suppose that makes thing easier too. Not that I'm complaining.

Hmm, yeah, you know? They've added a lot of new things to Predator, true, but they've made it simpler and easier. So, err, yeah... Not really a "downgrade" per se, but it's certainly gotten weaker in some areas. It's still plenty of fun, though.

Oh, and it was pretty disappointing that we didn't get Tightrope Takedowns. That's got to be one of the coolest Takedown animations ever.
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Re: Predator Has Been Downgraded

Postby Doudyx-X-xDubs » Jul 15th, 2015, 10:35 pm

The only things that bother me are how I can't do double silent takedowns, and not being able to knock thugs off ledges with the remote batarang or batclaw.

Titghtrope takedowns are notable as well. But not necessary.

-Inverted ledge takedowns were a chore and pretty difficult to pull off, also didn't seem batman like.
-You can grate instant takedown through a fear takedown when there is multiple thugs, why would you not want to silent if there was only one guy?
-Disarm and counter takedown? I don't remember what this is. You can disarm enemies still with the batclaw.

-Smoke Pellet Takedowns were nerfed as well. If the thugs see you when you throw it, you won't be able to take them down. You have to throw the pellet unseen for you to be able to take them down. Which I like better.

-Then there's the ability to grapple up a chute when in the floor grate, which is very useful.

- Also the Ceiling grates are new and you can takedown either from above or below through them. I'm pretty sure they're new.

- The Disruptor, Remote Hacking Device, and Voice Synthesizer are all some of my favorite gadgets in the whole series. They really make you feel like you own these streets and put more of an emphasis on staging the encounter to turn every tide in your favor even before taking out the first thug. Just like Batman would do.

Overall I like this predator better, it's faster, more fluid, and I feel more like Batman than ever. The increase prompt radius and simplified nature really lets you get into a nice flow and the fear takedowns never get old.
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