Confusing Talia moment

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Confusing Talia moment

Postby bismp » Aug 4th, 2015, 5:55 pm

I recently replayed AC and i found the story pretty great,just as i remembered it.However,i found a particular Talia moment really confusing:

After the Mr.Freeze boss fight,Batman finds out that Harley stole the cure.But when he gets to the Steel Mill,he finds Harley tied up:it is later revealed that Talia got the cure from her.In other words,from now on she has the cure.

(When you find Joker he is also acting really weird.At this point the real Joker doesn't have the cure,so what's the point of having Clayface acting as if everything is normal?Anyway,that is not my main concern).

So,here's my point.After the boss battle with the Joker,the only conscious people in the room is the fake Joker and the trapped Batman.This is when Talia shows up(who most likely has the cure with her at the point).It is known that Talia is a capable martial artist,while the Joker though deadly,certainly cannot match her in 1v1 combat.Furthermore,there is not an imminent threat to Batman's life,as Joker isn't really close to him when Talia shows up,while he also has his hands free to use a gadget.

What i would have done if i was in Talia's position(and i hope every other sane person would have done)?I would kill the "Joker"(it doesn't matter that he isn't the real one at this point) in a flash(i mean Talia "killed" him afterwards when she was in a much harder situation),help Bruce get up and give him his cure.See?Not that hard!

What did she actually did?She left Bruce in a difficult situation(he would have been dead if Catwoman hadn't intervened).She also didn't give him the cure,while she knew that the disease was fatal and he could die,or at least pass out at any moment.She surrendered herself to a maniac,while she clearly had the upper hand at the time,which in the end cost her her life.

But,she had a MASTERPLAN!"Follow your heart Batman!"(!!!).Tell me that i am not the only one confused by her decision?
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Re: Confusing Talia moment

Postby dk09w1ngz » Aug 4th, 2015, 11:19 pm

bismp wrote:I recently replayed AC and i found the story pretty great,just as i remembered it.However,i found a particular Talia moment really confusing:

After the Mr.Freeze boss fight,Batman finds out that Harley stole the cure.But when he gets to the Steel Mill,he finds Harley tied up:it is later revealed that Talia got the cure from her.In other words,from now on she has the cure.

(When you find Joker he is also acting really weird.At this point the real Joker doesn't have the cure,so what's the point of having Clayface acting as if everything is normal?Anyway,that is not my main concern).

So,here's my point.After the boss battle with the Joker,the only conscious people in the room is the fake Joker and the trapped Batman.This is when Talia shows up(who most likely has the cure with her at the point).It is known that Talia is a capable martial artist,while the Joker though deadly,certainly cannot match her in 1v1 combat.Furthermore,there is not an imminent threat to Batman's life,as Joker isn't really close to him when Talia shows up,while he also has his hands free to use a gadget.

What i would have done if i was in Talia's position(and i hope every other sane person would have done)?I would kill the "Joker"(it doesn't matter that he isn't the real one at this point) in a flash(i mean Talia "killed" him afterwards when she was in a much harder situation),help Bruce get up and give him his cure.See?Not that hard!

What did she actually did?She left Bruce in a difficult situation(he would have been dead if Catwoman hadn't intervened).She also didn't give him the cure,while she knew that the disease was fatal and he could die,or at least pass out at any moment.She surrendered herself to a maniac,while she clearly had the upper hand at the time,which in the end cost her her life.

But,she had a MASTERPLAN!"Follow your heart Batman!"(!!!).Tell me that i am not the only one confused by her decision?


Now that you brought this up, I'm surprised she just didn't stab Joker. Too chicken to interfere with Protocol 10? :oldyella:
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Re: Confusing Talia moment

Postby Batcrow » Aug 26th, 2015, 11:36 pm

bismp wrote:I recently replayed AC and i found the story pretty great,just as i remembered it.However,i found a particular Talia moment really confusing:

After the Mr.Freeze boss fight,Batman finds out that Harley stole the cure.But when he gets to the Steel Mill,he finds Harley tied up:it is later revealed that Talia got the cure from her.In other words,from now on she has the cure.

(When you find Joker he is also acting really weird.At this point the real Joker doesn't have the cure,so what's the point of having Clayface acting as if everything is normal?Anyway,that is not my main concern).

So,here's my point.After the boss battle with the Joker,the only conscious people in the room is the fake Joker and the trapped Batman.This is when Talia shows up(who most likely has the cure with her at the point).It is known that Talia is a capable martial artist,while the Joker though deadly,certainly cannot match her in 1v1 combat.Furthermore,there is not an imminent threat to Batman's life,as Joker isn't really close to him when Talia shows up,while he also has his hands free to use a gadget.

What i would have done if i was in Talia's position(and i hope every other sane person would have done)?I would kill the "Joker"(it doesn't matter that he isn't the real one at this point) in a flash(i mean Talia "killed" him afterwards when she was in a much harder situation),help Bruce get up and give him his cure.See?Not that hard!

What did she actually did?She left Bruce in a difficult situation(he would have been dead if Catwoman hadn't intervened).She also didn't give him the cure,while she knew that the disease was fatal and he could die,or at least pass out at any moment.She surrendered herself to a maniac,while she clearly had the upper hand at the time,which in the end cost her her life.

But,she had a MASTERPLAN!"Follow your heart Batman!"(!!!).Tell me that i am not the only one confused by her decision?


I'd say that she KNEW the Joker was a fake as she had the cure, and that is why she did this. She REALLY didn't want to fight Clayface
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Re: Confusing Talia moment

Postby Biggest Bane » Sep 11th, 2015, 4:28 pm

This is one of the biggest plot holes I've ever seen, and it only happens that way so the game can have its terribly contrived ending at the Monarch Theater. Arkham City is riddled with plot holes, but this is the worst one of them all.
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Re: Confusing Talia moment

Postby smilex » Sep 16th, 2015, 3:31 pm

She didn't know about Clayface Joker, she said as much when she died.

This is a weird plothole. Hopefully someone comes up with some good reason that I could put into my head canon. :I
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Re: Confusing Talia moment

Postby AW8 » Sep 25th, 2015, 12:34 am

bismp wrote:I recently replayed AC and i found the story pretty great,just as i remembered it.However,i found a particular Talia moment really confusing:

After the Mr.Freeze boss fight,Batman finds out that Harley stole the cure.But when he gets to the Steel Mill,he finds Harley tied up:it is later revealed that Talia got the cure from her.In other words,from now on she has the cure.

(When you find Joker he is also acting really weird.At this point the real Joker doesn't have the cure,so what's the point of having Clayface acting as if everything is normal?Anyway,that is not my main concern).

So,here's my point.After the boss battle with the Joker,the only conscious people in the room is the fake Joker and the trapped Batman.This is when Talia shows up(who most likely has the cure with her at the point).It is known that Talia is a capable martial artist,while the Joker though deadly,certainly cannot match her in 1v1 combat.Furthermore,there is not an imminent threat to Batman's life,as Joker isn't really close to him when Talia shows up,while he also has his hands free to use a gadget.

What i would have done if i was in Talia's position(and i hope every other sane person would have done)?I would kill the "Joker"(it doesn't matter that he isn't the real one at this point) in a flash(i mean Talia "killed" him afterwards when she was in a much harder situation),help Bruce get up and give him his cure.See?Not that hard!

What did she actually did?She left Bruce in a difficult situation(he would have been dead if Catwoman hadn't intervened).She also didn't give him the cure,while she knew that the disease was fatal and he could die,or at least pass out at any moment.She surrendered herself to a maniac,while she clearly had the upper hand at the time,which in the end cost her her life.

But,she had a MASTERPLAN!"Follow your heart Batman!"(!!!).Tell me that i am not the only one confused by her decision?

I've spent the last 4 years trying to understand what is going on in the Arkham City ending.

Why doesn't Talia go to Batman and give him the cure after stealing it from Harley?
Why does Joker pretend to have the cure?
Why does Talia offer Joker to lead the League of Assassins?
Why does she tell him where the Pit is?
Why does Joker think Batman has the cure after Batman asked Joker for the cure?
How would being dipped in Lazarus in any way make Joker immortal?

As for the "Follow your heart"-scene, my explanation is that there were supposed to be 10 armed Joker thugs with Joker there. They just forgot to add them in. :oldyella:
"All the martial arts ninja training in the world doesn't matter a tinker's damn. The only thing that counts is whether or not you have the will to do what needs to be done. " -Black Mask
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