How Would You Make Arkham Knight Better?

Discuss the possibilities for "Batman: Arkham Knight" and the future of the Arkham series after Rocksteady Studios' swansong.

How Would You Make Arkham Knight Better?

Postby BuNKiTZ » Jul 8th, 2015, 6:02 pm

Seeing as Arkham Knight has disappointed me again and again--as well as other people from what I've seen--I thought it only appropriate to make a thread like this, just as we had one for Origins.

First of all, however, while I find Knight repeatedly disappointing and even frustrating right now, as Pieter would say, it does so many things right. All the pros outweigh the con. Very much so. Simple as that. The pros are fantastic, while the cons can be downright awful at times.

Anyway, here's how I would improve this amazing yet very flawed game.

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Story (spoilers for this section, obviously)

Spoiler: show
  • Have both Robin and Nightwing play a larger role in it. All the former did was work on the cure off-screen, assist you in one section of the game, then get kidnapped in the end. The latter has it even worse, as all he did was give you the Disruptor and tell you about Penguin's gun smuggling operation.
  • "Tim/Barbara" does not work. Their "relationship" is hollow and empty. They don't have on. We are just told that they do. If you put Dick in Tim's exact position, at least there is an unspoken history between the two of them, coming from decades of stories.
  • Barbara is not in a relationship. She has feelings for Dick, and vice versa. When Nightwing shows up to give Batman the Disruptor and his intel on Penguin, he also checks in on Barbara.
  • Catwoman is involved in the story and is not held hostage by the Riddler--or at least not initially? I don't know. I can't think of anything right now but I want her in the story and not as a hostage.
  • Again, somehow, Robin and Nightwing are more involved in the story. Perhaps in the assault on GCPD, they would be assisting Batman. Other things. Stuff.
  • In the end, rather than having the strange situation where a single, frail man with a handgun is somehow holding a well-trained, crime-fighting vigilante and the ex-Green Beret police commissioner hostage, let the Militia surround them. Point their guns at them.
  • At the moment, I can't think of a better way to prevent the terrible ending besides not letting Bruce's identity be revealed to the world. Have Red Hood show up to stop Crane just in time, as well as take out his former subordinates. Instead of just showing up there and disappearing afterwards, give him and Bruce a small moment. They look at each other for a while and Bruce is about to thank him by name when Jason stops him and tells him to call him "Red Hood" (this would unlock his bio after the cut scene) then leaves.
  • I refuse to believe that only these villains are taking advantage of the chaos. Include others. Zsasz is already in it, do something with him.

Side Content (spoilers for Most Wanted missions)

Spoiler: show
  • Include Challenge Maps. Scrap the whole "AR Challenges" idea. We don't need a story reason for Challenge Maps. They're a gameplay element, after all. I want to be able to play in all the memorable Combat and Predator locations in the story such as ACE Chemicals and Stagg's airship, as well as doing so with other characters.
  • Two-Face and Penguin's Most were sorely lacking from their Most Wanted missions. They both only show up at the end. Why not make them more involved in a similar fashion to Riddler? We've been having Nygma talk to us again and again since the first game, so why not give some of that spotlight to Dent and Cobblepot, yeah?
  • Deacon Blackfire's Most Wanted mission's story involved Jack Ryder investigating him and his cult, but the actual mission? A less-than-five-minute fight with his followers. Rocksteady gave us such a great variety of detective work gameplay, so why not put those to use? Let us investigate Blackfire's cult as well before punching the old geezer in his hairy face. Maybe interact some more with Ryder.
  • Firefly's Most Wanted was three rounds of the same car chase that ended with Batman's fist repeatedly meeting Lynns' face. That last part makes sense, yeah, but change the rest up a bit. We could have had to rush into a building and find Firefly. Maybe there were some people who thought they could protect themselves from Scarecrow's new toxin by simply hiding in their attic or whatever. Let us rescue those people. Heck, there can't possibly just be one station's crew of firemen in Central Gotham, right? We could go rescue those other guys too. Lastly, the final fight with Firefly should have ended with Firefly getting away from Batman's fist only to have the latter hook his Bat-Claw onto his jetpack, leading to an awesome aerial boss fight. That still ends with Batman's fist and Firefly's face meeting. Repeatedly.
  • Condense all of the Militia's side content into one Most Wanted mission. Simply have the checkpoints, bombs, and watchtowers separated into three different tabs or something. After all, in order to rid Gotahm of the Militia forces, we need to complete them all.
  • Don't give us Cloudburst 2.0, give us Deathstroke 2.0. I believe I can speak for everyone that Deathstroke's boss battle was disappointing. It was a reenactment of our first boss battle with the Knight, which was already irritating. What Rocksteady should have done for Slade was to improve upon our boss fight with him from Origins. That was one of Origins' highlights for me, and if they could improve upon that with all the new features, I think most of us would be content with the fight. Also? 10 years and Slade--one of the world's deadliest assassin--has decided to not even polish his suit? Seriously?
  • Man-Bat's Most Wanted was only the second-most disappointing--okay, maybe third? Fourth? Its story was good. So was the atmosphere in Kirk's lab. That was pretty great. Otherwise? It was boring. There was no fight. Man-Bat was just a glorified recon drone. He flew at the same speed and all we had to do was glide over to him and a cut scene did the rest of the work. There are some great ideas on this forum and probably elsewhere on the internet on how a Man-Bat boss battle could go. The least of which involves using the "Gadgets While Gliding" feature Rocksteady introduced into the game--how Rocksteady did not decide to use this for this mission baffles me to no end.
  • *cough* batman404 and I also had a discussion sharing our ideas on a multi-stage Man-Bat boss fight *cough*
  • *cough* It would have been amazing *cough*
  • A little less trophies, plenty more riddles. He's called "the Riddler," after all. Also, aside from unlocking audio files via the Riddler Grid, I would love to also collect physical tapes for the other characters. A much larger variety of breakable objects would be appreciated too.
  • Allow us to access the Batcomputer from the main menu

General Gameplay

Spoiler: show
  • Aside from battling tanks and traversal, make the Batmobile an option for puzzle solving and platforming--especially in the story. There has to be a difference in difficulty, of course, but don't make it too damn big.
  • This would easily lessen the amount of times we have to use the Batmobile throughout the game.
  • Give us back my beloved Bat Swarm.
  • Please. I miss it so much.
  • The other characters (Robin, Nightwing, Catwoman, Harley, and Red Hood) should have more than just 2/3 gadgets. Okay, maybe Harley and Catwoman doesn't because they're not necessarily known to use plenty of gadgets, but the Bat Kids definitely do, so at least they should have plenty. Rocksteady would have us believe that Nightwing fights crime in Bludhaven with only his Eskrima Sticks and Bat-Claw.
  • Give at least Nightwing and Red Hood Special Combo Disarm & Destroy.
  • Let players switch between Batman, Robin, and Nightwing in the story. Allow Dick and Tim to either tackle their own set of side missions (thus allowing for more villains) or assist Batman in his. They could both use their own motorcycles to navigate Central Gotham.

Downloadable Content (A Matter of Family, Season of Infamy, and Gotham City Stories)

Spoiler: show
  • Use A Matter of Family as an opportunity to either develop Dick or Jason's character, rather than force more of "Tim/Barbara" down our throats. The former has had little time to shine in the story--or do anything for that matter--while expanding the latter's story will definitely help add more depth and weight to the main story.
  • Both could offer interesting gameplay as the former would have Nightwing's agility but without his trademark Eskrima Sticks, while the latter would be fighting hand-to-hand, acrobatically, and with "explosive rage." In fact, they could add a "rage mode" for that, similar to Harley's... erm, I forgot what it was called. The thingy.
  • Season of Infamy: if the PC files are to be trusted--of course they are--then it looks like we're about to get one new villain (Prometheus) and a bunch of returning ones. Give us more new ones. Leave Mister Freeze alone, unless you're making him do something that is in line with the way his relationship with Batman ended in City. Most importantly, for the love of bats everywhere, don't give us any more Mad Hatter.
  • Some new villains I would like to see instead: Ventriloquist, Killer Moth, Crazy Quilt, Falcone, I don't know who else, surprise me!
  • Gotham City Stories: Nothing yet as we don't have any info yet besides the description, so I can't say something as I don't know if it will be in the DLC or not.

So, what would you do to improve Arkham Knight?
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Re: How Would You Make Arkham Knight Better?

Postby gmc1992 » Jul 8th, 2015, 6:56 pm

less focus on the batmobile
have actual boss fights that should've been in the main game and not in the dlc
give scarecrow the spotlight more(apparently no one told rocksteady that the joker isnt the only villain you can give big attention to)
have a hand to hand battle with the arkham knight similiar to deathstroke but better
give us the scarecrow nightmare battles like in asylum but have scarecrow be the focus in them not the joker who got kind of annoying tbh
make arkham knight an oc(there was talks that he was going to be a relative of amadeus arkham) would've been better that what we got
have hush integrated into the main story, his character you can make an entire game around since he has bruce's identity
finally have the ending be less ambigous, is that bruce or someone inspired by him

end post
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Re: How Would You Make Arkham Knight Better?

Postby Logic » Jul 8th, 2015, 7:00 pm

Simple, add actual bosses.
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Re: How Would You Make Arkham Knight Better?

Postby Benji » Jul 8th, 2015, 7:15 pm

I agree with everything you say but my main points would be to get rid of all the tanks. Hell' I'd probably scrap Arkham Knight altogether.

Spoiler: show
Maybe have Red Hood instead.


Add actual boss fights, previous boss fights before such as Ivy, Solomon Grundy, Ra's Al Ghul and especially Mister Freeze have all been fun, whilst some of them are not perfect they're great interactions with Batmans colourful foes which are great points in the story and something to look forward to.

- Have more villains in the main story. Penguin and Two-Face were just side missions while we were led to believe they would all be conspiring in ways to kill the Bat.

Have more of the Batfamily involved in the main story, absolutely.

More, more characters from the comics who we all know - Maxie Zeus, Killer Moth, Carmine Falcone, Tony Zucco, Harvey Bullock, Renee Montoya, Leslie Thomkins, Ratcatcher. I'd even welcome characters from previous games such as Mister Freeze, Zsasz or Mad Hatter. Instead character spots were taken up by original characters who none of us really gave a crap about in the end.
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Re: How Would You Make Arkham Knight Better?

Postby PriestlyBlock67 » Jul 8th, 2015, 7:54 pm

*Boss fights(nuff said)
*True challenge maps, alot of challenge maps that lets us choose playable characters
*More dual play challenge maps
*No more batmobile combat/hybrid maps
*Batcave/Arkham Asylum

That's it the game is perfect/amazing

-- Jul 8th, 2015, 7:54 pm --

*Boss fights(nuff said)
*True challenge maps, alot of challenge maps that lets us choose playable characters
*More dual play challenge maps
*No more batmobile combat/hybrid maps
*Batcave/Arkham Asylum

That's it the game is perfect/amazing

-- Jul 8th, 2015, 7:54 pm --

*Boss fights(nuff said)
*True challenge maps, alot of challenge maps that lets us choose playable characters
*More dual play challenge maps
*No more batmobile combat/hybrid maps
*Batcave/Arkham Asylum

That's it the game is perfect/amazing
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Re: How Would You Make Arkham Knight Better?

Postby JJJ » Jul 8th, 2015, 8:32 pm

Spoiler: show
-Tone down with Joker. It's nice that he didn't have the spotlight this time, but there still was too much of his blabbering.
-After the Knight's identity is revealed, we don't get a word from him after he disappears. That's weak, there should've been one more confrontation between Bruce and Jason.
-Oracle should've been kept dead. The u-turn was cheap, it's like RS didn't have the guts to actually kill one of Batman's allies.
-Deathstroke should've been left out, his battle felt like the Arkham Knight battle, rehashed. The militia sidequests didn't need a final boss.
-Hush and Azrael could've easily been integrated into the main story. They were hyped up in City, but Knight didn't deliver. It's especially disappointing with Hush, since it was hinted in City that he was working with Joker and Scarecrow. Maybe they're saving this for DLC, though that's very unlikely.

- Riddler trophies without an actual challenge and the breakable objects should've been left out.
- The lack of challenge maps for Robin, Nightwing and Catwoman was disappointing.
- The APC chases should be a tad bit easier.

//Oh, and add some damn boss fights of course.
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Re: How Would You Make Arkham Knight Better?

Postby azreal187 » Jul 8th, 2015, 8:54 pm

I would add the martial artist enemy's from origins and combine them with the ninja enemy's it was nice to have some enemy's who can counter your attacks. The Batman Arkham Knight boss fight should have been more like the Deathstroke boss fight from origins. Add the batcave I still can't believe there no batcave. Explosive baterangs are a must there one of his trademarks. Being able to use the batwing would have made those tank battles more fun. Less tank battles they where fun at first then they started sending to many tanks it should just be one wave of tanks not 4 or 5. Add the batcycle and batboat. Nightwing,Robin and batgirl can use batcycles to.
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Re: How Would You Make Arkham Knight Better?

Postby Jack out of Box » Jul 8th, 2015, 9:34 pm

I don't have the energy right now to list them all

-the ability to reset NG+ progress so we can replay the story with all gadgets again.
-FOR THE LOVE OF ARKHAM add traditional challenge maps playable by all characters
-give all characters new moves and weapons

-Boss fights and a challenge mode for each one with medal-based objectives

-more villain-themed thugs that have different attributes and qualities

-bring back campaigns but make them multi-leveled environments where we can tackle each room how we want to with medal-based objectives

-villain team ups: hush and clayface. Riddler and mad hatter, penguin and two face, deathstroke and AK
-greater involvement of other villains in main story

-larger and more varied side missions with deeper story - essential for HuSh, Blackfire, Firefly, deathstroke
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Re: How Would You Make Arkham Knight Better?

Postby Remote Claw » Jul 8th, 2015, 10:13 pm

Get rid of the Arkham Knight and put in the united Rogues Gallery they said would be in the game.
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Re: How Would You Make Arkham Knight Better?

Postby Mr_Weasel_ » Jul 9th, 2015, 1:50 am

Add boss fights, remove a few of the Batmobile tank battles from either side missions or the core story. Give more time to side villains like Penguin and Two Face. I thought the game was great, all I really want is one or two boss fights and more villain screen time.
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Re: How Would You Make Arkham Knight Better?

Postby HaHaHa » Jul 9th, 2015, 7:42 am

I would've liked a mission to main narrative to at least utilized more than one of the buildings in the game. The majority of the game constantly sends us underground.
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Re: How Would You Make Arkham Knight Better?

Postby M. Malone » Jul 9th, 2015, 1:41 pm

Maybe Rocksteady got sick of so many people complaining about their boss fights in the previous games that they finally said "You know what? Screw it! How about NO boss fights in this one, ya jackwagons!" :oldyella:
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Re: How Would You Make Arkham Knight Better?

Postby Bleemak » Jul 9th, 2015, 4:36 pm

I agree with you guys.

But I have one more thing:

Chance Arkham Knight's identity completely.

I was so sure that Batman would have to keep guessing who the Arkham Knight is and is he one of the Robins.

Who I wanted it to be? Thomas Wayne Jr. or Heretic. Maybe Heretic even more. That would've been true Father to Son they used in teaser trailer. And give Talia, Ra's, Hugo and LoA some role in the game.
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Re: How Would You Make Arkham Knight Better?

Postby Laederlappen » Jul 9th, 2015, 5:44 pm

It was a very low-spirited moment for me when I realised they had taken out the Bat-swarm attack...
So of course I'd put that back in
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Re: How Would You Make Arkham Knight Better?

Postby AW8 » Jul 9th, 2015, 8:43 pm

Overall, I find this to be Rocksteady's weakest game. It improves on some things from City, but also takes several steps in the wrong direction.

Both combat and predator have gained a few fun new additions to play around with. Which makes the lack of proper Challenge Maps extra sad. I want to try out the new mechanics with different characters on different maps, not just play as Batman on the few maps offered.

I also think Rocksteady listened to the wrong feedback (or rather, implemented them in the wrong way) - namely the addition of the Batmobile and the requests for longer side missions.

I'm stealing the hell out of BuNKiTZ's format.

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Story (spoilers ahead)
Spoiler: show
The main plot of the game is complete schlock, it needs a total re-write to work. Batman is turning into the Joker for some reason, and Jason Todd has unexplainably aquired an army of trained soldiers and high-tech drones.

The whole "Batman is turning into Joker" plot point should have been cut.

Why is Batman turning into the Joker? He was cured in Arkham City. Having Joker's TITAN blood inside of you kills you, it doesn't turn you into the Joker. The 4 Jokers (Johnny Charisma, Albert King, Christina Bell, Henry Adams) should be dead since they never got the cure. Batman is in the same boat as all the infected who received the cure, if Batman is turning into the Joker then so should the hundreds contaminated with the Joker's blood.

Not to mention, having Joker as the main villain in all 4 games is lazy, unoriginal, tired. Mark Hamill should only have had appearances in Killing Joke and Death in the Family Fear Toxin hallucination flashback appearances, to set up Jason. But nope, once you open the door for Joker, it's Joker for entire game all over again. When Scarecrow is talking to Batman in the end, Batman completely ignores him as he's fighting the Joker in his head. Even when he's dead, he continues to be the main villain. This running gag has got to stop.

Ra's or Talia should have been behind the return of Jason Todd and his militia.

How did Joker fake Jason's death? What has he been up to all these years? From where did he get his army? I don't buy that Jason Todd can create a black ops team in Venezuela from nothing that can bring down a city. Thug conversations say that the Arkhamites threw their funds together to afford the army, but that doesn't make sense - Penguin's the only one with sizable funds, and recruiting, training and outfitting the army in just a few months is pushing it. They even managed to sneak the tanks into Gotham without Batman noticing. That's way above Jason's level. Not even Batman could pull off such a feat without his company fronts and near-endless resources.

Before release, I speculated that Ra's or Talia were behind the Arkham Knight militia. And as it turns out, that would have been much more logical than what we got in-game. The al Ghuls have the funds, the manpower and the training to pull off something like this. It would also tie in nicely with the last game, as a continuation of the Arkham City scheme. That way they could also have let Joker kill off Jason for real, and do the Lazarus Pit revival instead.

The Red Hood storyline should have had an awesome ending that provides closure instead of an incredibly lackluster ending.

The setup is pretty good. Jason taunts you and rants about you the entire game, and you get to see the events of his capture, torture and apparent death at the hands of the Joker. The Cloudburst boss battle, the Excavator boss battle and the Red Hood boss battle were all great. Batman then contacts Alfred and Jason disappears. His following appearance in the story is when he silently frees Batman in the ending. Oh, and he painted a bat on his chest off-screen. Seriously. Where is the closure?! The Red Hood bio says that he and Batman will forever be separated by the fact that he's willing to kill criminals. Is that what we get, a sentence in a character bio?! Show, don't tell!

The basics are there - after Jason sees that Batman still believes in him and didn't just replace him with Tim as if he were a spare part, Jason realizes that his quest to kill Batman is wrong and returns as a twisted version of Robin. But the presentation in-game is garbage. It's like it was rushed and unfinished, but it can't have been rushed, not with 4 years of development time and an 8 months delay. What the ending really needed is more scenes with the Red Hood, when he comes to Batman's aid as things are most dire in the Asylum. Hell, give me BATMAN AND RED HOOD DUAL-PLAY COMBAT. What a missed opportunity. This is a video game, give me some actual gameplay and not just cinematics.

The ending should have been better.

That goes for both the normal ending and the Knightfall Protocol ending - like having a definite ending unlock after sludging through all the side content wasn't stupid enough. The ending is dumb. Batman keeps Robin locked up in a compromised location for no reason. Batman has already defeated the Arkham Knight and unmasked him, as well as retrieved Barbara, why does he keep Tim locked up?

So, Scarecrow kidnaps him. Batman's only alternative is to surrender himself and hope Jason will follow him. The word that comes to mind is forced. This is no complex villain plot, this is an amateur hostage situation. An old man with a gun, a couple of armed mercenaries and Robin and Gordon hostage. Hell, the hostages could defuse that situation BY THEMSELVES. And are you telling me Batman doesn't even try to locate them? Or simply sneak in a gadget when he surrenders himself? It's like Batman didn't even care at that point, like he feels that the ending is near and it's time for lunch when they're done filming.

This needs a total re-write to improve. Come up with a better plot to get Batman to Arkham Asylum. And most importantly, provide some actual gameplay in the abandoned Asylum, instead of an interactive horror movie inside-Joker's-mind-inside-Batman's-mind.

The awful Knightfall Protocol ending can be completely removed if you don't do the incredibly forced "Batman unmasked" scene. Make a point of the fact that Batman will always be there for Gotham. The End. No vague hack ending in an attempt to be memorable.


Side Content (spoilers ahead)
Spoiler: show
Don't add playtime length by copy-pasting.

The biggest issue with the side missions is how they've added length by simply copy-pasting the same scenario over and over again. Almost every side quest suffer from this. Man-Bat involves the exakt same hunt three times, Firefly involves the exact same hunt three times, Penguin involves the exact same pursuit and fight four times, Two-Face involves the exact same bank robbery three times, Pyg involves the exact same corpse scanning six times, Azrael involves the exact same AR challenge four times, every Arkham Knight militia side mission involve the exact same scenario ten to twenty times...

Quality>quantity. Don't add filler to prolong playing time. I'd rather re-play one fun short game several times, than sludging through a boring long game once. The way they keep adding more and more and more bombs and militia outposts throughout the city is absurd. Eff that sssch. Give me three bomb scenarios, all diverse. Give me five watchtowers, all completely different. Give me one memorable Firefly chase.

Blowing up weapons caches until Penguin appear at the last one, stopping bank robberies until Two-Face appears at the last one, and finding a distinctive mark on every layer of the deep tissue scanner is so formulaic, lazy and stale that I have no words.

Do an actual sidequest with Hush.

Because what we got can hardly be considered a sidequest, gameplay- or storywise. Walk up to Hush and press a button. I have no words.

As for the narrative... what was the point of the build-up in Arkham City if this was all they did with it? Hush walks into Wayne Enterprises without a plan and hopes to replace Bruce Wayne somehow. What a butchery of the mastermind from the comics. What were Rocksteady thinking!?

Penguin and Two-Face are but shadows of their Arkham City selves.

What's there to say? Their roles in Arkham City are memorable and good. In Arkham Knight, they are filler side missions, robbing banks or moving illegal weapons. Zzzzzzz.

The way to fix it is probably by not making them side missions per se. Make one of their missions mandatory in the main quest, where Batman has to catch either Two-Face or Penguin in order to get the information he needs on the Arkham Knight. The one you don't go after becomes an optional side quest. And both of the encounters should be a single, long encounter instead of multiple copy-pasted filler parts.

Deathstroke shouldn't drive a tank.

Or at the very least, there should have been a melee fight between the two after Batman wrecks his tank. The way he jumps out of his tank and Batman takes him down in one hit in a cutscene, what an absolute letdown. Having Batman defeat Deathstroke with one punch is a disappointment in any medium, but having it happen after Batman spent hours taking down copy-pasted watchtowers, bombs and militia bases is disappointment on a whole other level.


General gameplay (spoilers ahead)
Spoiler: show
I wanted Arkham City 2.0, instead I got Batmobile Simulator 2015.

Damn the Batmobile to the fiery pits of Hell.

The Arkham games did not need it. Now we have physical proof that the Arkham games did not need it. It's forced down out throat no matter if we want to play the main story, side missions, collect Riddler trophies...

And as for the "Be the Batman" tagline. Fighting tanks in the Bat-Tank is as un-Batman as you can get. Filler tank combat, after filler tank combat, after filler tank combat. What where they thinking!?

Screw the races. Screw the Batmobile puzzles. Screw the long tunnels designed for mandatory Batmobile gameplay.

Cast it into the fiery pits of Hell.

Dual Play should have been utilized more.

It really feels like a prototype. We only get one Dual Play predator room. The Vanessa Studios level was a good implementation of Dual Play, the Catwoman Dual Play was fine but pretty minor, and the Nightwing Dual Play was barely there at all.

In upcoming DLC and games, I hope it's intergrated better and utilized more. It feels like a mechanic that should be utilized a lot or not at all.

Add proper Challenge Maps.

You don't design a level such as the Stagg Airship predator room or the last bank robbery and then not make it available for Batman, Robin, Nightwing, Catwoman, Harley Quinn, Red Hood or Batgirl to play around in. Not only are there only 4 predator/combat rooms compared to the 6 (12 if we count the extreme versions) in the other Arkham games, but you can't even utilize the DLC characters outside their campaigns. Which takes away a lot of their worth.

I'm certain that Rocksteady will add proper Challenge Maps that all characters can play, but unfortunately as paid DLC. Which is BS, this should have been in the game from the start.

Fear Takedowns should be nerfed or not added at all.

It's an extremely overpowered "I win"-button. You only need to perform one silent takedown before you can insta-KO five thugs in a Fear Takedown without even trying. Predator gameplay needed more challenges, not less.
"All the martial arts ninja training in the world doesn't matter a tinker's damn. The only thing that counts is whether or not you have the will to do what needs to be done. " -Black Mask
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