How Would You Make Arkham Knight Better?

Discuss the possibilities for "Batman: Arkham Knight" and the future of the Arkham series after Rocksteady Studios' swansong.

Re: How Would You Make Arkham Knight Better?

Postby Jack out of Box » Jan 10th, 2016, 10:32 pm

I could write a ton about this but I'll just stick to the main one for me right now.

I would change the canon/continuity of the arkham games which is a mess after Arkham Knight. I would also eliminate all themes of finality, including the ending

In asylum and City I loved how batman already had a history with all these characters and it felt like there were tons of potential stories just waiting for further games. It felt like the animated series had been revived and Batman could do this forever.

With the ending of Arkham Knight we find that there is 10 years between Origins and Knight and that it's essentially the end of batman's career.

In my opinion, ten years is way too short to have gone through 3 robins, one batgirl, meet countless rogues like deathstroke and firefly only twice and have it all end for nothing.

It seems they wanted to mimic the batman movies but they did so at the cost of what made Asylum so great when it appealed to the comics
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Re: How Would You Make Arkham Knight Better?

Postby AW8 » Jan 24th, 2016, 7:51 pm

Jack out of Box wrote:I could write a ton about this but I'll just stick to the main one for me right now.

I would change the canon/continuity of the arkham games which is a mess after Arkham Knight. I would also eliminate all themes of finality, including the ending

In asylum and City I loved how batman already had a history with all these characters and it felt like there were tons of potential stories just waiting for further games. It felt like the animated series had been revived and Batman could do this forever.

With the ending of Arkham Knight we find that there is 10 years between Origins and Knight and that it's essentially the end of batman's career.

In my opinion, ten years is way too short to have gone through 3 robins, one batgirl, meet countless rogues like deathstroke and firefly only twice and have it all end for nothing.

It seems they wanted to mimic the batman movies but they did so at the cost of what made Asylum so great when it appealed to the comics


I really agree with you here.

The first game is set when Batman is a veteran and has met all his major rogues. In this way, it is very similar to the ongoing comics and Batman: The Animated Series (on the latter half of its run, where most if not all major villains had been introduced). That's the whole point of the setting. Another day in the life of the nefarious villains and the masked vigilante who never gives up the fight. There's no big finale or explanatory origin story needed. The game only takes place during the "worst night in the Batman's career" to excuse why he punches down his entire rogues gallery in one night.

Arkham City mostly continues on the same theme - save for Hugo Strange and Hush, Batman has met all the "new" villains already - Ra's, Talia, Clayface, Deadshot, Penguin, Mad Hatter, Mr. Freeze etc. It's just another day... until the end where Joker dies. This is where the comic legend starts to die and is replaced by the bombastic movie vigilante. Every game now needs a defining and/or shocking moment and can't just be another day at work for Batman.

Enter Arkham Origins. I liked WBGM's versions of the characters even better than Rocksteady's. But was it really needed to show "Batman's first meeting with" every single villain? Not really. Of course, it's not like they had a choice where to put it on the timeline. WB wanted 2 Arkham games, and setting the new game far away from Knight not only avoided conflicts, but also gave them a chance to find younger replacements for Conroy and Hamill to keep the franchise going in the future.

And with Arkham Knight, Rocksteady were deadset on making an explosive finale. There's Batman's first meetings with Man-Bat, Pyg, Blackfire and Arkham Knight (he qualifies because he's basically a new character to Batman). There's shockers, revelations, defining moments and a definitive end to the Batman legend. Or is it? Who knows and who cares what the ending(s) meant. What it is, is a far cry from the comic book-like events of Arkham Asylum. The audience are coming home from the movie - ahem, sorry, game - shocked over what they just experienced.

If I had it my way, the 4 games of the Arkhamverse would have all been set in the same time period, with a veteran Batman and the vast majority of his rogues already established. The exact years and dates doesn't matter at all, because Batman is on a floating timeline and he will always be in his mid-thirties. The games could have plot lines that are connected with each other and the events of previous games, although the major story should be new every game and not just re-use Joker every time. Character deaths and shocking revelations should be kept to a minimum, I'd rather have a good, interesting, thought-provoking, interconnected, detailed story than a story that relies on shocking twists.

When it's decided that a final game is coming out, I don't want a definitive ending. Batman doesn't end. Batman is a timeless legend that, even if Bruce Wayne dies or retires, lives on. Have Bruce proclaim that he will always continue the fight, or have him retire and give Dick the mantle of the bat, or kill him off and give Dick the mantle of the bat. The Dark Knight Returns and Batman Beyond got it right, there will always be a Batman. Even The Dark Knight Rises, although stupid in Bruce's replacement, had the sense to end on a clear, positive note.
"All the martial arts ninja training in the world doesn't matter a tinker's damn. The only thing that counts is whether or not you have the will to do what needs to be done. " -Black Mask
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Re: How Would You Make Arkham Knight Better?

Postby dk09w1ngz » Jan 24th, 2016, 9:38 pm

It's less story but more content, though the whole cure subplot was nonsensical.

General Gameplay
  • Dual-play selection- infuriatingly missing from AR. At least I want the four presets.
  • RPG troops on foot (predator + Batmobile combat)- a unique enemy type that's already in-game (they attack Poison Ivy's plant and later you in the Jokermobile dream) that would have been genuinely scary to deal with. Plus, with such a Batmobile centric game, the Batmobile Remote could have came back for predator. I do not like missing gadgets. At the very least, they could replace minigunners for Batgirl and Catwoman. Though they'd have to be armored like in some thugs were in City. You could reuse the commander model for them.
  • Snipers in AR- why are they missing exactly? Makes no sense to me.
  • Clock tower, Botanical Gardens, and Freeze's ship AR- these would have been perfect predator maps, yet went unused.
  • Predator Knightmare- well we don't have an extreme mode nor custom modifiers, but this should have been included like Combat Knightmare when the update came out. Fear takedowns are fun but extremely op, and this nerfs fear takedowns by having the player lose it if you're spotted.
  • fury attack for all combat specialists- Good lord. Please. It's a cut move that was restored... that should get more love.
  • Joker and Harley goons in AR- these guys need more love period. I wish Mark Hamill records voice synthesizer lines and the denial tactics too.
  • free roam for all characters- Everyone wanted this. For Harley, I would just give Harley clown-themed suction cups or something and have her leap similar but not identical to the Cat.
  • Batsuit change in the office- in lieu of a Batcave, this would have been nice.
  • proper acknowledgment in predator- get Troy Baker in the studio right now and have him actually acknowledge everyone in dialogue save the AK. Unless you want to make imposter jokes.

Bosses
  • Boss Battle replay- kind of would have been fun. Should include SOI too so we can beat the snot out of Croc outside of the Iceberg Lounge.
  • AK fight- should have been a 2 stage fight. The first half being combat, and then the second half being an improved predator fight with Red Hood constantly on the move and employing jammers. Though that might tear more hair out than the cloudburst fight.

Batman
  • BTAS skin- One of the most influential mediums for the Arkhamverse doesn't get a skin? Travesty.

Batmobile
  • Batmobile + dual-play map- I'm surprised this was never a thing. Totally could have done it at Ace Chemicals. Perhaps due to the Batmobile ride button and the dual-play button mapped the same?
  • Dynamic appearance of Batmobile in Batcave- Anything selected in the selection screen is the Batmobile loaded in the cave.
  • Include the Jokermobile as a skin- no really. This is infuriating. RS, you aren't Kojima, don't pull this artistic jazz. It's a villain Batmobile skin, and we have the Riddler skin too, so no excuses.
  • BTAS Batmobile- Rumor has it that this was original supposed to appear in the Season Pass. Too bad this was scrapped.
  • 30's Batmobile- personal preference, so that my favorite skin, original batman, has a batmobile to go with him.
  • Miagani chase map- Just APCS. Literally just APCs. I would like the dual-missile ones to make a return. The APC side mission is my 3rd favorite mission for AK.

Red Hood
  • Deathstroke speaking during Red Hood AR (including voice synth)- For obvious reasons.
  • Bulletproof henchmen in AR- RS, you're telling me you included an unique predator enemy for Red Hood to fight to replace minigunners in the story pack, and yet have the audacity to not put them in back when the predator character selection update happened? I would at least put them in Endless Knight, at least to fix that asinine decision to not add time to the counter when enemies are shot by Red Hood.
  • Brutes for Red Hood- It just seems like Red Hood really got the short end of the stick here. He's trained under Batman, he can take them. Sure would beat the flood of shield enemies we always gets.
  • Batman & Red Hood dual-play- Well, this would have satisfied our Under the Red Hood fantasies.
  • N52 and UTRH skins- There's a N52 chain already and UTRH is his original work.

Joker
  • Joker survival map- demons + militia + 3rd person shooting in vein of Gears of War = profit. Of course, give his x-ray specs back and this time don't make him be locked into place with them. Other gadgets should be featured too, like the shotgun, submachine gun, revolver, rpg, & chattering teeth. Hell, throw in the disruptor just for the fun of it.
  • N52, BTAS, 60's, Batgirl DLC (w/tophat), TKJ tourist getup, Black Mask disguise (unmasked), Origins, TKJ Red Hood (not the Origins one, almost identical to just regular Origins skin), & first appearance skins- because why not? They'd work perfectly.

Batgirl
  • Brutes for Batgirl- It'll be amusing to see how she takes them down as she's daintier than the rest of the Batfamily.
  • replace disarm & destroy with Batswarm- this sounds insane, but this is to make Batgirl further unique than Batman. Also we all kind of missed the Batswarm.
  • Oracle, 60's, BTAS, and N52 skins- 60's and N52 skin chains exist, so might as well. BTAS would have been ideal had they had included BTAS skin for Bats in the first place. Oracle skin just for the laughs.

Catwoman
  • Brutes for Catwoman- I just want to scratch their face or something. Catwoman's a great fighter too.
  • Batman & Catwoman AR dual-play- And this was missing why? The Bat & the Cat get the Riddlerbots to fight together, and they would have been perfect in the endless combat map w/ the Batmobile and environmental takedowns. Plus imagine predator.
  • Catwoman's abilities restored- she has no dual-takedown nor are there ceilings added for her aside for the Toy Shop. It needs to be done.
  • DKR skin- would have also been nice since we have DK Bats.

Nightwing
  • REC for Nightwing in base game- RS had no excuse to not include this for Nightwing when the patch came out. NONE. It's also really weird to play Gotham Knights without the REC.
  • Line launcher for Nightwing- this would have been nice, but RS decided to take this out for some damn reason.

Robin
  • Quickfire explosive gel for Robin in story & Batgirl DLC- unacceptable. Needs to be included. Go the whole damn way with the patch!
  • dive bomb- Long overdue.
  • Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, and original Arkham City skins- these would have been nice, honestly.

Azrael
  • not make him a copy and paste of the Bat- the story doesn't even excuse this. In fact the story should not have given the excuse that he's studied the Dark Knight perfectly over the years. At least Batgirl was a severly nerfed Batman (though she had identical combat moves). If you're going to copy and paste someone, make it Bruce Wayne of Origins.
  • Cross-shaped shuriken- You know, so we don't have the whole damn copycat jazz. I mean he sprays a cross with explosive gel, so why not this?

SOI
  • Prometheus- he should have been included. Would have been interesting to see him for the first time.
  • Cel-shading for all skins in Wonderland side mission- this would have been a neat effect. I mean, it already was on the 8.03 suit.

Other
  • Showcases for DLC aside for SOI- this is just lazy and unacceptable, RS. You should have done this the first time around.
  • Gadget showcase- this would have been nice too. It'd be great for fan modelers.
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