A Justice League movie: Why it's the right thing to do

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A Justice League movie: Why it's the right thing to do

Postby CROD » Oct 20th, 2012, 4:30 pm

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The rumors keep coming and it’s looking more and more like we will be getting a Justice League movie a lot sooner than expected.

We’ve all read the rumors and the articles pertaining to the rumors, but what we’ve seen very little of is talk of how Warner Brother’s current plan for a shared universe can actually work. It’s easy to look at the success of Marvel’s The Avengers, and proclaim the steps Marvel took to get there as the only way to do things, but it’s not.

Releasing a Justice League first then releasing spinoff movies could not only work but could open up a lot more opportunities for Warner Brothers that would not have been there if they took their competitor’s route.

Man of Steel

The Justice League movie itself has yet to be officially announced, but you’d still have to assume Zack Snyder’s Superman movie Man of Steel will be a part of DC’s new shared universe. It makes so much sense I’m just going to write as if that’s what will happen. This would be the first movie to be released from the shared universe, unless they bring on Ryan Reynolds as Green Lantern which I highly doubt.

If that is in fact the case then Man of Steel will be setting the whole universe up. A lot of pressure on a character who’s last movie bombed, but if done right could be the perfect movie to launch everything. Superman is the most powerful character in the DC universe so what better character to gauge how powerful or realistic the other heroes can be?

Again this is a lot of pressure on this one movie, just think if it had been Green Lantern launching the shared universe. Yeah, I don’t want to think about it either but right off the bat you can tell the difference in talent of the people working on the films. You have DC’s golden gooses Christopher Nolan and David Goyer who previously worked on the most recent Batman trilogy, both whom worked on the Man of Steel script. You have a lead actor who fans are actually excited about, Henry Cavill being the clear fan favorite to get the part of Superman. The most important thing going for this movie is obviously Zack Snyder, a veteran director who has already directed a superhero movie in Watchmen.

Looks like a great start for Warner Brothers and DC Comics.
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Justice League

The first rumor was that the WB is moving forward with a Justice League movie and that Will Beall has already finished the script. Will Beall’s only previous credits come from the ABC show Castle, he also scripted Warner Brothers new movie Gangster Squad which has a 2013 release date. Obviously WB saw something in him and so have the people behind the upcoming releases of Logan’s Run and Lethal Weapon 5, both movies which are also being scripted by the Justice League writer.

From what little we’ve heard of the script we know the movie will be dark and gritty, which far cry from the comicbook tone set in The Avengers. That’s a good thing though, the last thing WB wants to do is mimic Marvel despite what everyone else is saying. The script has also received praise from Fox’s new man in charge Mark Millar, who revealed he has already read it and enjoyed it.

The second rumor has Justice League going head to head with The Avengers 2 in 2015. Now, could a Justice League movie not only work but stand up against the already proven Avengers franchise? I believe so because contrary to popular belief, this movie does not need to be set up with prequels.

We just don’t need to be introduced DC’s characters like we did Marvel’s. It’s not an insult to point out the majority of people who saw The Avengers probably didn’t know who Iron Man and Thor was before their solo movies. Batman, Superman, Green Lantern and even Wonder Woman don’t need that big of an introduction thanks to previous movies or television shows. That leaves Flash and Aquaman left but not every single character in The Avengers had a back story, remember little was known about Black Widow and Hawkeye. Martian Manhunter could possibly be replaced by Cyborg like he was in DC’s current comic book universe or there can be a whole new mix of characters which could include characters like Black Canary and Zatanna.

The most important thing to remember is The Avengers is ONE way to bring a team together, not the only way. I enjoyed the first X-Men movie with little knowledge on the characters and their origins. That’s proof alone you can build character in a movie without the need of origin prequels. Just because Marvel let character development take a back seat to the action in their movie doesn’t mean every other movie should do the same. I loved The Avengers but surely everyone can admit that characters didn’t really grow in the movie and that other movies have been successful in introducing us to a group of characters without the need of an origin movie for each character. It's also worth noting that the number of people who went to see The Avengers is vast compared to those who went to see, or bought on DVD, the solo-lead-in movies. This means that there were lots of people who enjoyed The Avengers without the detailed origins of each character. All I really need to know about Captain America going into The Avengers is that he's an out-of-time supersoldier from WWII. It's the same with The Flash; he can run at super speed. This isn’t a new idea, it’s been done in movies long before we were even born. A superhero team movie can have character development and action all in one movie, let’s not forget that.

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Batman

We will have plenty time to discuss the Batman reboot later on so I’ll keep this brief. It looks as if Justice League will be setting up the next Batman movie. Some are worried that putting Batman in a movie with super powered beings can take away from the characters solo films, but I disagree. I think they are a lot of us that want to see him with his fellow DC heroes and just because he’s in a universe with power and magic doesn’t mean Batman will become campy. His solo movie can be taken just as seriously as the Nolan trilogy. Just because he fights alongside Superman doesn’t mean he can’t be the world’s greatest detective. A quick look at Grant Morisson's JLA or the Justice League cartoon show off exactly how Batman should work in the Justice League; as the team's thinker, the stealthy master-tactician.

Spinoffs

For the most part people have spoken negatively about solo films spinning off from the Justice League movie but there are a lot of positives that might make this the ideal situation.

This could be a perfect way for WB to see who they should be investing their money in. Think about it, Wonder Woman and The Flash have had so much trouble getting anything off the ground, but what if people fall in love with the characters in the Justice League movie? WB would then be more confident in them to carry a solo film, but those are the easy ones. What if Aquaman steals the show? If you don’t think it’s possible just look at the current comic book series written by Geoff Johns. Aquaman is an absolute joy to read every month and if the character in the movie has that same vibe why couldn’t he steal the show?

There can be a lot of possibilities being opened up for the more obscure Justice League members because of the film. Add that to the extra money being thrown to Flash or Wonder Woman if they are well received and you can see why launching a shared universe with one movie is a very smart move for WB but satisfying for the fans.

A lot of articles on how this won’t work and why it’s a bad idea, but in the end no one really knows how well it will do. Given the right director and a great cast along with a solid script and this could be just as good as any other superhero movie out there, maybe even better. Some will say this is being rushed but with a finished script and three years to ago how can that be? Others will say Warner Brothers is panicking and should build the universe more slowly. I’m not going to argue Justice League being released in 2015 isn’t a direct result of The Avengers success, but that doesn’t matter anyway. Why slowly introduce your characters when the majority is already well known?

The movie can be good and it can succeed. There’s more than one way to bring a team of heroes together. This is the right thing to do, don’t let one franchise’s success make you forget that.

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Who do you want to see in the Justice League line-up?
Who would make a good villain?
How would you spin the live action DCU out of Justice League?
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Re: A Justice League movie: Why it's the right thing to do

Postby Guest » Nov 2nd, 2012, 10:32 pm

this cant beat avengers unfortunately
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Re: A Justice League movie: Why it's the right thing to do

Postby BobGun » Nov 2nd, 2012, 11:43 pm

Nice article, CROD, though I wouldn't go as far as saying Synder's a veteran director (4 features)...

In a weird way, he's the person I'm happiest about being onboard, but also the one I'm wary about. He's visually good, but his films are always uneven. Dawn of the Dead was alright, though not very original. 300 had some interesting visuals, but the writing was terrible. Watchmen, again, looked great, but zero substance from a book filled with it. Sucker Punch...less said the better.

For some reason, I thought Jonathan Nolan wrote this with Goyer, but after checking the writing credits, it's only Goyer who has a screenplay credit, with Chris Nolan getting a story credit. This has planted a small, Blade 3 seed of doubt in my head...personally, I always thought Goyer lucked out slightly with the Nolans; I think his ideas are better than his dialogue.

As far as the JL, I'll be honest and say it's something that's never interested me, at any level. I did say the same about Avengers and was pleasently surprised by how well they pulled off the multiple characters. It works that the story isn't deep but the dialogue is sharp. I will definitely give the JL film a go, and not say it's doomed from the start, but it's up against it.

With the mainstream buzz around TDK and TDKR, the average moviegoer may find it jarring to go from that world to one with Batman fighting and hanging about with aliens. What do you do with Green Lantern? The film was a flop, so do you carry on with Reynolds or reboot that version?

So you have a popular Batman who won't be in it, a Green Lantern that flopped, an untested Man of Steel whose last outing was limp...I don't know how popular Flash, Wonder Woman or Aquaman are to the mainstream, but I think Thor and Captain America benefited from having there own introductions, and I think they would, too.

I think it's a mammoth task to pull off if Man of Steel is the only introduction to the universe before the JL.
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Re: A Justice League movie: Why it's the right thing to do

Postby MaxSchreck » Nov 3rd, 2012, 1:03 am

I doub that it matters that we already had a green lantern movie . The film was a flop , few people saw it , I think the audience would accept a new take on this character .

I am not so sure about Batman however ... this movies portrayl of him should better be very good otherwise people might dismiss it as a bad copy of the character christopher Bale played , even toughhe might much closer to the comic book version .

Flash, Wonder Woman and Aquaman should get accepted by the mainstream audience . These characters are well known enough , if they are presented in a fresh , modern way then they have the potential to become popular .


Who do you want to see in the Justice League line-up?

---The classic team :

Batman
Superman
Wonder Woman
Flash
Green Lantern
Aquaman
Martian Manhunter/Cyborg

Can`t think of a better line up ...


Who would make a good villain?

--Ra`s al Ghul ,Fernus the burning , Vandal Savage , the white martians , Ma'alefa'ak , Mongul , Darkseid,Mageddon, Project Cadmus , Legion of doom , Injustice Gang/league , an entirely new villain ,starro , an eldritch abomination of some sort .... the possibilities are endless ...

How would you spin the live action DCU out of Justice League?

--Every character who is well received by the audience gets his own movie series .
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Re: A Justice League movie: Why it's the right thing to do

Postby kain9998 » Nov 3rd, 2012, 2:32 am

I agree with pretty much everything you said here. The one point I do disagree with is something you said about Avengers though, that being that the characters didn't really grow. Granted, I'd say most of them didn't. But (if you didn't see Avengers don't read further, not putting in tags because I'm sure almost everyone has), I do think Tony Stark had some good character development that stood out to me, with him willing in the end to make the giant sacrifice to save everyone.I think Tony became a little more human in the movie, and I think it's going to show more of that in Ironman 3, with his new personality.
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Re: A Justice League movie: Why it's the right thing to do

Postby basilkarlo96 » Nov 3rd, 2012, 3:15 am

MaxSchreck wrote: Who would make a good villain?
.


The Centre from New fronier. Making a live action New Frontier would be a great set up of Flash and re setup Green Lantern. There's a rumor going around that Wonder Woman will be appearing as a cameo in man of steel.

problem is what flash would they use? Barry Allen or fan favorite Wally West?
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Re: A Justice League movie: Why it's the right thing to do

Postby TFDutchman » Nov 3rd, 2012, 3:29 am

^ The difference with the Avengers is that it plays out like a sequel. Take it as a standalone film and it doesn't really give a great introduction to each of their characters or their backstories because people are already expected to know who they are from the previous lead-up films. Stark of all definitely shows the most growth and this seems even more apparent with Iron Man 3 how even in the trailer we're already seeing the aftermath of New York and how it has affected him as a character. Marvel has built it as a series, much like a comic book, that while growth might not be initially noticeable in that film, the growth carries through to it's sequels and solo series.

*
The Justice League, however, will be a first outing for all the heroes. It has a mammoth task of reintroducing all these characters. Man of Steel is giving us a taste of Superman, but what about the rest? We have no idea what they plan for their new rebooted Batman, or their takes on Wonder Woman, Flash, Lantern, Manhunter and Aquaman. The JL film has the massive task of reintroducing all these characters, establishing their backgrounds and building them to show us their new interpretation of each character for the DC Cinematic Universe. It's a massive task, but could potentially be handled easily through character dialogue rather than showing the origins. A simple exchange between Lantern and Batman like the New 52 Justice League can establish the Green Lantern Corps. and Hal's recruitment, while Hal can be taken aback by the fact that Batman is just a man in a suit with no superpowers. The movie really needs to build and focus on character introduction and development because if they fail to build the characters then the rest of the movie won't matter. It'll just be flashy action with little substance. Character introduction and development is especially most important if Justice League is meant to be the launch point for solo films for all the JL characters.

And of course, Batman, the JL Batman will be scrutinised and compared to that of Nolan's and Bale's Batman and so I think he will be the most challenging character to build in the entire film as it would need to be believable how a powerless character like Batman can realistically stand toe-to-toe with the likes of Superman, Wonder Woman and the Green Lantern.

Man of Steel will most definitely be our first taste of what the JL film will be like, and already I love the visual tone Zack Snyder has taken with the film and the grounded approach to Superman as a character. If this is what we can expect from the JL movie then Warner Bros. and DC finally has a serious contender to put up against The Avengers providing differing contrasts in style. Avengers the brighter more comic oriented style, Justice League, the more serious in both tone, visual and dramatic style. Rather than an action blockbuster, Justice League would come off more as a superhero drama akin to The Dark Knight and I think if JL can pull that off and pull it off well, it could very well be the greatest superhero movie of our generation.

The lineup is simple: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash, Aquaman and Martian Manhunter.

As for villain choice it's really all dependent because you need a global extinction level event that would make it believable that Superman alone can't handle the job. If Martian Manhunter is involved, then the alien invasion is an easy route, but would draw lots of comparissons to Avengers. However this is the same route taken by the JL animated series with alien sleeper agents on Earth making it possible for their species to take over. This is how Manhunter becomes involved and easiest way to explain his reason for coming to Earth.

If Manhunter were swapped out for Cyborg you could probably explore a more Earth based threat, but again, an enemy that makes it necessary for all these beings of ridiculous overpoweredness to be necessary. I believe possible confrontation with the Government would be an interesting approach as the Government would likely need to respond to the presence of such beings. Already in Man of Steel they're exploring the reaction of the government into Superman's presence on Earth, so why not a desperate reaction from the Government when there are 7 of these beings? Martian Manhunter could be the trigger. Captured, breaks free, Superman and others in pursuit of such an overly powered character who came with peaceful intention that then leads to an even bigger threat.

There's certainly a lot of ways it could be done but again the trick is to make these characters feel necessary and that no single member of the team could handle it.

The Avengers had an easy task because they're not nearly as overpowered and so while and alien threat was used, this does not limit them to such massive threats every outing. With a character as powerful as Superman, every JL threat would have to feel like a global extinction threat because of how powerful he's set out to be.
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Re: A Justice League movie: Why it's the right thing to do

Postby shadow » Nov 3rd, 2012, 4:06 am

....And with SW episode 7 coming out, they should delay or cancel the movie altogether.
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Re: A Justice League movie: Why it's the right thing to do

Postby Red Batman » Nov 3rd, 2012, 4:10 am

Sigh, so many humans these days suffer from aflluenza (especially teenagers), always wanting something new despite the fact that the old is just as good, if not better, just not as shiny.

Everyone keeps seeking modern takes, but other than shifting to modern issues such as Iraq and the Recession, there really isn't a way to do that unless you change the characters, which in turn ruins their purpose. Look at Green Lantern, a movie many people criticize yet one that I loved b/c that was what the character is about- imagination. Versus a movie like Thor, which opts for the action/comedy formula when the character was meant to be a comic-of-age story.
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Re: A Justice League movie: Why it's the right thing to do

Postby Fozzie026 » Nov 3rd, 2012, 6:17 am

I would love to see a Justice League movie, but the idea of doing origin stories in the movie instead of before hand is not a good idea. A good origin story takes a fair bit of time, and if Superman is the only hero with a previous movie building up to it, all the rest of the heroes will either get botched, rushed origin stories, or it will essentially take up the entire movie. Warner Brothers and Dc need to either follow in marvel's footsteps and try to beat them at their own game by giving each hero their own movie first, or the other choice is save Justice league for later and start off with a World's Finest movie.
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Re: A Justice League movie: Why it's the right thing to do

Postby robinshooter » Nov 3rd, 2012, 9:55 am

Guest wrote:this cant beat avengers unfortunately

so your judging a movie before you've actually seen it.....

-- Nov 3rd, 2012, 10:06 am --

I think definitely batman, but different to the Christian bale version, superman, wonder woman, green lantern, flash, possible aquaman/martian ,manhunter, and cyborg. Plus, looking at the new tv series "arrow", you could include green arrow too. If it were villains specifically for each character, I'd choose joker, lex luthor/ doomsday, chetah/Maxwell lord, sinestro, the rogues, black manta, white Martians or.... Whoever cyborgs enemy is, brother blood or something. But I think that maybe (big maybe) it should be darkseid, as goes always in the comics, and has a major effect on all dc characters. I think after they should definitely do the flash, possible wonder woman, and if their feeling ambitions, ,maybe another green lantern and possibly (possibly) make a teen titans film. Or at least continue the cartoon series.
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Re: A Justice League movie: Why it's the right thing to do

Postby MaxSchreck » Nov 3rd, 2012, 10:27 am

I think it won`t be such a big problem to make Batman look like he can stand toe- to- toe with Superman and co . It could be more of a problem not to make Batman look to competent .
Grant Morrison solved this problem in his jla run by giving Batman lots of scenes in which he proved how badass he is right in the first story arc . Later fans got annoyed by this take on the character , saying that he is far too competent .An opinion I don`t share by the way , at least in Morrisons run , the whole "Batgod" thing never got too over the top .

Another possibility would be portraying hal as a rather arrogant character who looks down upon Bats because of his lack of power and gets owned by Batman in some way during the movie . He could steal his ring in order to humble him , punch him down ... Hal could get angry at Bats for some reason , he tries to punch Batman and receives what anyone with a powering would receive when they take on a martial arts master without their all powerful weapon ....it happened in the comics already .


Problem is , that might be a bit unfair towards Hal fans and I am really not a big fan of comic book characters solving problems by fighting their allies . The scene would have to show that Batman actually respects Hal , but wants to teach him that his ego gets in his way .

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Re: A Justice League movie: Why it's the right thing to do

Postby TFDutchman » Nov 3rd, 2012, 10:44 am

Fozzie026 wrote:I would love to see a Justice League movie, but the idea of doing origin stories in the movie instead of before hand is not a good idea. A good origin story takes a fair bit of time, and if Superman is the only hero with a previous movie building up to it, all the rest of the heroes will either get botched, rushed origin stories, or it will essentially take up the entire movie. Warner Brothers and Dc need to either follow in marvel's footsteps and try to beat them at their own game by giving each hero their own movie first, or the other choice is save Justice league for later and start off with a World's Finest movie.


I figure the movie would take place in a time where all these heroes are already in existence. Past their origins. So it won't show their origins, but will still need to at least touch on them through dialogue and introduce the characters in a way that makes sense to a fresh audience. That way time isn't wasted on showing the murder of the Waynes and Bruce's choice to become Batman because he'll already be Batman. It will likely be Wonder Woman's first journey to the land of Men. Aquaman drawn out of Atlantis by the threat. Hal, already a Lantern, responding to a threat his sector, etc.

Simple dialogue can take care of character origin and backstory

-- Nov 3rd, 2012, 8:51 pm --

Red Batman wrote:Look at Green Lantern, a movie many people criticize yet one that I loved b/c that was what the character is about- imagination. Versus a movie like Thor, which opts for the action/comedy formula when the character was meant to be a comic-of-age story.


Green Lantern is criticised because it's an overly terrible movie that butchers the comics, wastes characters like Hammond, skips over most character development and a poor plot to the point that it's just a flashy superhero film that's nothing more than eye candy.

Versus Thor which adapted the character brilliantly and faithfully and focused more on the development of it's characters and a great story. It's easy to see that Thor is the significantly better of the two films without contest. I wouldn't call Thor a coming-of-age story, I'd call it a God-cast-out-and-made-powerless-to-find-a-sense-of-morality-and-what-it-takes-to-be-a-good-King story. And personally I think the story works much better removing the Donald Blake alter ego aspect of the original Thor comics.
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Re: A Justice League movie: Why it's the right thing to do

Postby Mr.Wayne » Nov 3rd, 2012, 4:33 pm

TFDutchman wrote:I figure the movie would take place in a time where all these heroes are already in existence. Past their origins. So it won't show their origins, but will still need to at least touch on them through dialogue and introduce the characters in a way that makes sense to a fresh audience. That way time isn't wasted on showing the murder of the Waynes and Bruce's choice to become Batman because he'll already be Batman. It will likely be Wonder Woman's first journey to the land of Men. Aquaman drawn out of Atlantis by the threat. Hal, already a Lantern, responding to a threat his sector, etc.

Simple dialogue can take care of character origin and backstory


Well said, it could be exactly like Secret Origins from Justice League!



TFDutchman wrote:
Red Batman wrote:Look at Green Lantern, a movie many people criticize yet one that I loved b/c that was what the character is about- imagination. Versus a movie like Thor, which opts for the action/comedy formula when the character was meant to be a comic-of-age story.


Green Lantern is criticised because it's an overly terrible movie that butchers the comics, wastes characters like Hammond, skips over most character development and a poor plot to the point that it's just a flashy superhero film that's nothing more than eye candy.

Versus Thor which adapted the character brilliantly and faithfully and focused more on the development of it's characters and a great story. It's easy to see that Thor is the significantly better of the two films without contest. I wouldn't call Thor a coming-of-age story, I'd call it a God-cast-out-and-made-powerless-to-find-a-sense-of-morality-and-what-it-takes-to-be-a-good-King story. And personally I think the story works much better removing the Donald Blake alter ego aspect of the original Thor comics.


Green Lantern was terrible, I'll give you that mate, but Thor was just as worse IMO. It had a rushed and poorly written story, lack of chemistry between any of its leads (unlike in Iron Man and Captain America), and dialogue that was as laughable as Batman & Robin (yeah, I know Thor is meant to speak that way but it seemed like every characters words, including the humans, were just cliches).

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20110510/REVIEWS/110519987

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Re: A Justice League movie: Why it's the right thing to do

Postby Red_Robin » Nov 3rd, 2012, 4:37 pm

Green Lantern was disappointing, but not 'terrible'. Thor was much worse than Green Lantern, but still not 'terrible'. Both are below average. Steel was terrible. The Justice League of America TV movie/pilot was terrible.
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