Small Question(s) About TDKR

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Small Question(s) About TDKR

Postby Hayley » Mar 21st, 2014, 3:23 pm

I apologize if this has been asked before or is confirmed somewhere. I've revisited TDKR recently for a school assignment, but work has been overwhelming or perhaps it just never hit me...

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Besides the select few who knows Batman's identity, in the end, wouldn't it make sense for more people to discover that Bruce is Batman? I ask this because when the autopilot is revealed to be fixed, the guys there clearly know the billionaire, or ex-billionaire, is involved. Unless they're just that dumb. Reminds me of Coleman Reese...

Also, this definitely has been asked/interpreted over and over... But what is your take on the "death" of Wayne? I know some people are really hard-headed and refuse to accept that Wayne could ever die, and although it's been a while since the end of the trilogy, I feel it never gets old to discuss the ending, just as Batman is everlasting.
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Re: Small Question(s) About TDKR

Postby DarkFlux » Mar 21st, 2014, 3:54 pm

Confused what you mean by the death of Wayne. Hes clearly alive at the end of the film.
Personally i think it would have been better if you never saw him alive and they just left it ambiguous, with the fixed autopilot hinting at his survival. Or cut as soon as Alfred looks up from his table and smiles.
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Re: Small Question(s) About TDKR

Postby Hayley » Mar 21st, 2014, 4:23 pm

I wouldn't say he's "clearly" alive. I do believe he is, though. It's just that some folks seem to think Alfred is "dreaming." Both scenarios, imo, are plausible, and I'm sure that's what Nolan intended to do 'cause that's just how he rolls. It'd be nice to see some actual arguments I haven't come across, something beyond the autopilot [since everyone appears to resort to that first all the time].
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Re: Small Question(s) About TDKR

Postby Mr Wayne » Mar 21st, 2014, 7:44 pm

I actually don't see why people seemed to think he was dead or that Alfred was dreaming.

Regarding the dead thing, Batman will never die. I know he has for a time in the comics or else worlds but he never dies or stays dead for long. It would have been a big step for Nolan to completely kill him off. The ending was perfect imo.

Regarding the Alfred dreaming thing....in other Nolan films aka shutter island or inception I can see why people question the ending, is it real/was he still in the dream world etc etc. I see no reason throughout the whole Dark Knight Trilogy that points to anyone being so upset (Alfred's case coz he would have heard batman had died saving Gotham) they'd dream about someone being alive when they arnt.

Now about the people putting 2 and 2 together to realise bruce was batman coz they died at the same time, even though there was no clear explanation I believe they would have covered it up somehow.

But this is just how I think.
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Re: Small Question(s) About TDKR

Postby DarkFlux » Mar 21st, 2014, 8:20 pm

Shutter Island is Scorsese not Nolan btw, ;)
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Re: Small Question(s) About TDKR

Postby Mr Wayne » Mar 21st, 2014, 8:25 pm

DarkFlux wrote:Shutter Island is Scorsese not Nolan btw, ;)


Oh yeah :oldyella: I think Leo I think Nolan.
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Re: Small Question(s) About TDKR

Postby Hayley » Mar 21st, 2014, 10:24 pm

Scorsese also did somewhat of a dream sequence in Blue Velvet, but that's a story for another time.

Let it be known that I'm VERY convinced that Bruce survived because he does deserve to start afresh. I say "Bruce" because Batman, the symbol, died, if only for a moment, in the eyes of Gothamites. Wayne isn't the only person who "died" during the chaos, so that alone doesn't really make people look into it. I specifically target the men who work for Lucius, assuming only Fox and not his entire staff knew of the secret. If they knew Wayne fixed the autopilot of the Bat, wouldn't there be an immediate "Oh, so he's Batman!" Furthermore, the tombstone that was erected for Wayne should be tossed out if these individuals were to tell everyone. Maybe it isn't important who Batman previously was to the people, but since a new Dark Knight is rising, whether or not the location of the Batcave is discovered is questionable. Was it ever mentioned where it was exactly? It makes perfect sense for it to be under the manor, as we see Alfred there... So if it remained there and people knew Wayne was their guardian all this time, I'm pretty sure they'd look into his hideout, and everything would kinda be compromised for Robin, no?

Going back to Pennyworth's little "fantasy" and considering my firm belief that Wayne is still out there, others have argued that it is all a facade: the "clues" that led to that cafe scene were all part of a ruse, simple misdirection. Nolan is renowned for misleading the audience. He probably threw in the bits with the autopilot and the renewal of the Batsignal to give those who knew Batman's identity a sense of hope, and it makes sense that the hope is also brought forth by the emergence of Blake in the final scene.

I don't think there's a right or wrong answer. Most will lean towards Wayne being alive while some favor salvation by suicide. I'm an advocate of the former, but it's nice to see well thought-out counterclaims. And sorry for overanalyzing... I'm so enamored by Batman that I want this paper to be perfect lol.

Rewatched the explosion scene repeatedly... There are so many possibilities. Either he jumped ship, OR he remained inside the Bat and just dropped the bomb into the ocean. Although... A mushroom cloud is probably not likely to form... It does seem likely for him to use the jet to transport him quickly back home to retrieve his mother's pearls and Selina so that the two can venture into their honeymoon.
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Re: Small Question(s) About TDKR

Postby The Collector » Mar 31st, 2014, 2:35 am

Hayley wrote:Besides the select few who knows Batman's identity, in the end, wouldn't it make sense for more people to discover that Bruce is Batman? I ask this because when the autopilot is revealed to be fixed, the guys there clearly know the billionaire, or ex-billionaire, is involved. Unless they're just that dumb. Reminds me of Coleman Reese...
The only people who knew Bruce Wayne was the Batmen were his inner circle and Selina by the end of TDKR. As for everyone else, why would they suspect Bruce Wayne was the Batman? Numerous other rich/high society individuals were executed around the same time the Batman "died". Bruce Ways happened to be one of them in the public's eye. Or like Selina at first, most people may have assumed the Batman was just a powerful friend to some wealthy individual.

Hayley wrote:Also, this definitely has been asked/interpreted over and over... But what is your take on the "death" of Wayne? I know some people are really hard-headed and refuse to accept that Wayne could ever die, and although it's been a while since the end of the trilogy, I feel it never gets old to discuss the ending, just as Batman is everlasting.[/center]
The "death" of Batman and Bruce's happy ending fits in this interpretation of the character. Since Batman Begins, Bruce never had the desire to be Batman forever or be sure all crime was gone before his mission is completed. He only wanted to end organized crime that was ran by the mob and have Batman become a symbol for Gotham, so the citizens wouldn't be afraid to stand up to the usual criminals and mobsters. Bruce in the end also made sure there would still be Batman before he left. I love the ending to TDKR and it completes the trilogy.
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Re: Small Question(s) About TDKR

Postby thepalaceofawesome » Apr 1st, 2014, 11:35 pm

I just liked seeing and ending to Bruce Wayne's era as Batman. Bruce has seen so much death and I don't really care if the character dies or retires I just like seeing an end to his story. I would have liked if DC Comics kept Bruce Wayne dead and made Dick Grayson the official new Batman in the new 52 but that is asking too much of Geoff Johns.
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