How would you portray your favourite villains?

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How would you portray your favourite villains?

Postby GeneralSmashy » Jul 29th, 2011, 12:52 am

Most Batman fans have their own personal image of the character, and the same goes for his villains. As a shameless Batnerd I'm always interested in hearing about what other people want from these character, so if you guys have any ideas you want to share, this is the place to do it.
I'd personally like to see a Scarecrow that is much more supernatural and strange. Years of exposure to fear gas has left Jonathan Crane unable to experience terror for himself, so he now acts as a guide as he lures his 'patients' on horrific trips through the dark recesses of their own psyches. He drives people insane, then feasts on their resulting fear and madness. Maybe it could be suggested that Crane has actually developed telepathic powers and can now literally enter your mind and gorge himself. The best part is that the psychologist inside Crane still actually believes he's helping people. By stealing people's fears he sees himself as is ridding them of all the anxieties and worries that once held them back. Of course, in reality, a session of therapy with Dr Crane is nothing but a one way ticket to Arkham.
Scarecrow should EMBODY fear. When he's just a skinny guy with a sack over his head he sort of loses his creepiness. Play up his cartoonish, surreal elements. When we see him we should be seeing what the fear gas is making us see. A slippery stick figure in a pointy Halloween hat, giggling medical jargon to himself, a cloud of fear gas always blurring his appearance like an old photograph. An encounter with Scarecrow should be like a nightmare, where the laws of reality go out the window and anything is possible.

So yeah this is basically the thread for fanboys with a lot of ideas and even more time on their hands. :oldyella: Feel free to comment on my idea for Scarecrow and share your own ideas on your favourite characters!
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Re: How would you portray your favourite villains?

Postby Hugo » Jul 29th, 2011, 1:49 am

Good thread.

I've always had my own interpretation of how Two-Face should be portrayed. Basically, I'd make him a complete neutral, more dependent on the coin than he usually is, but not as dependent as say he was on the tarot cards in Serious House. My Harvey would do good acts along with extreme heinous acts of evil. I'd also play up the split personality more than it is. There is no one functioning personality, but two constantly warring ones within the same body. I like the Harvey Dent and Big Bad Harv interpretation from BTAS, and for me "Two-Face" is just the shell.

For example. Two-Face sees a poster asking for donations for a childrens hospital. He tosses the coin. The good side comes up and he spills all his ill gotten gains into the hospital, the bad side comes up, he steals all the money donated and blows the hospital up. That's the issue I've always had with Two-Face, it's not good and bad, it's bad and some sort of weak bland slate sorta guy. The Harvey who once burnt down Falcone's money is still alive and kicking in my Two-Face, the only problem is that Big Bad Harv is also there.
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Re: How would you portray your favourite villains?

Postby Joe Chill » Jul 31st, 2011, 6:33 am

I too always enjoyed the 'Big Bad Harv' schizo approach. I honestly feel like TAS nailed many of the personalities of our favorite villains - thanks Paul Dini!
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Re: How would you portray your favourite villains?

Postby TFDutchman » Jul 31st, 2011, 1:26 pm

I think RS has made my dream interpretation of the Riddler come to life. I always liked the Riddler, but I thought it wasn't enough to just throw riddles and puzzles at Batman that would hint towards his crimes. I like this Riddler, and its my ideal Riddler, that he really puts Batman to the test by putting innocent people's lives in danger for the sport of proving that he's better than batman. I find it to be my ideal version of Riddler.

Overall, however, I would love to see a Batman that could be considered MA or even R rated if it were a film. Along the lines of the Joker graphic novel, where we really get to see how ruthless these villains are. Shooting people through the head, skinning them alive, decapitations, etc. I wanna see a Batman where the villains are at their absolute worst and really perform graphic and bloody crimes. Harley doing a strip for the Joker, Poison Ivy using more than just her pheromones to seduce men, Killer Croc ripping someone's head off with his teeth. Bane pulling a guys limbs apart. Blood, broken bones, slit throats. All in full and graphic detail. A Batman that definitely isn't kid-friendly. I know it makes me sound a little morbid, but I'm not really, i just think it would be something I'd love to see. I loved the vicious and graphic nature of Marvel's The Ultimates and Ultimatum.
Spoiler: show
(especially when you see The Blob eating out The Wasp's intestines or Cyclops taking a bullet to the head, Hawkeye putting an arrow into Black Widow's head, etc.)

I'd love to see a more vicious and graphic version of Batman.
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Re: How would you portray your favourite villains?

Postby GeneralSmashy » Jul 31st, 2011, 3:51 pm

TFDutchman wrote:I think RS has made my dream interpretation of the Riddler come to life. I always liked the Riddler, but I thought it wasn't enough to just throw riddles and puzzles at Batman that would hint towards his crimes. I like this Riddler, and its my ideal Riddler, that he really puts Batman to the test by putting innocent people's lives in danger for the sport of proving that he's better than batman. I find it to be my ideal version of Riddler.

Overall, however, I would love to see a Batman that could be considered MA or even R rated if it were a film. Along the lines of the Joker graphic novel, where we really get to see how ruthless these villains are. Shooting people through the head, skinning them alive, decapitations, etc. I wanna see a Batman where the villains are at their absolute worst and really perform graphic and bloody crimes. Harley doing a strip for the Joker, Poison Ivy using more than just her pheromones to seduce men, Killer Croc ripping someone's head off with his teeth. Bane pulling a guys limbs apart. Blood, broken bones, slit throats. All in full and graphic detail. A Batman that definitely isn't kid-friendly. I know it makes me sound a little morbid, but I'm not really, i just think it would be something I'd love to see. I loved the vicious and graphic nature of Marvel's The Ultimates and Ultimatum.
Spoiler: show
(especially when you see The Blob eating out The Wasp's intestines or Cyclops taking a bullet to the head, Hawkeye putting an arrow into Black Widow's head, etc.)

I'd love to see a more vicious and graphic version of Batman.


I agree with you about Riddler (I'm confident that Rocksteady's portrayal will become the definitive portrayal of the guy) but I'm afraid I disagree about the ultra violent Batman. I admit it would be kind of thrilling at first to see a Batman world filled with sex and violence, but in the end it isn't what Batman is about. Most of the characters in Batman (including, of course, the Dark Knight himself) don't have superpowers, and that's what makes them special. While it's fine for say, a Superman comic book to be pages and pages of big muscly guys beating the hell out of each other, Batman stories have always been more about the actual story than action and violence. Instead of being thrown in jail, Batman's villains are treated in a mental hospital. Batman is psychological. He's the World's Greatest Detective before he's the World's Greatest Ass Kicker. I much prefer the stories that test Batman's mind rather than his ability to beat people up. Likewise, I find it scarier to see the Joker force somebody to laugh themselves to death than to see him skin somebody. It's scary in a psychological way rather than simply being shockingly gory like a Saw movie.
I happen to be one of the few who hated Brian Azzarello's Joker. It was all gore and no substance. The characters behaved nothing like they should have. Harley Quinn, for instance, was there to do little more than strip and skin some goon alive. She didn't even have any lines! That was NOT Harley Quinn. I don't mind a really violent Batman, but ONLY if the story and writing is good enough to justify it. I got the feeling that Brian Azzarello just wanted to write a violent, sex-filled gangster story, then slapped the Batman name on it to sell more copies.
You also mentioned Ultimatum. I HATED Ultimatum. It was everything I just described: a ridiculous gorefest with a flimsy storyline and no respect for the characters it gleefully killed off. I'm not trying to pick on you here (and I'm grateful for the replies, guys; you've all got some great ideas) and I'm fine with gratuitous violence and sex when I go into a movie like Hostel and I know what I'm in for, but I have a high standard when it comes to Batman stories. I tend to expect better than stuff like Joker.
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Re: How would you portray your favourite villains?

Postby Smart_Alec_Mercer » Aug 1st, 2011, 7:16 am

GeneralSmashy wrote:
TFDutchman wrote:I think RS has made my dream interpretation of the Riddler come to life. I always liked the Riddler, but I thought it wasn't enough to just throw riddles and puzzles at Batman that would hint towards his crimes. I like this Riddler, and its my ideal Riddler, that he really puts Batman to the test by putting innocent people's lives in danger for the sport of proving that he's better than batman. I find it to be my ideal version of Riddler.

Overall, however, I would love to see a Batman that could be considered MA or even R rated if it were a film. Along the lines of the Joker graphic novel, where we really get to see how ruthless these villains are. Shooting people through the head, skinning them alive, decapitations, etc. I wanna see a Batman where the villains are at their absolute worst and really perform graphic and bloody crimes. Harley doing a strip for the Joker, Poison Ivy using more than just her pheromones to seduce men, Killer Croc ripping someone's head off with his teeth. Bane pulling a guys limbs apart. Blood, broken bones, slit throats. All in full and graphic detail. A Batman that definitely isn't kid-friendly. I know it makes me sound a little morbid, but I'm not really, i just think it would be something I'd love to see. I loved the vicious and graphic nature of Marvel's The Ultimates and Ultimatum.
Spoiler: show
(especially when you see The Blob eating out The Wasp's intestines or Cyclops taking a bullet to the head, Hawkeye putting an arrow into Black Widow's head, etc.)

I'd love to see a more vicious and graphic version of Batman.


I agree with you about Riddler (I'm confident that Rocksteady's portrayal will become the definitive portrayal of the guy) but I'm afraid I disagree about the ultra violent Batman. I admit it would be kind of thrilling at first to see a Batman world filled with sex and violence, but in the end it isn't what Batman is about. Most of the characters in Batman (including, of course, the Dark Knight himself) don't have superpowers, and that's what makes them special. While it's fine for say, a Superman comic book to be pages and pages of big muscly guys beating the hell out of each other, Batman stories have always been more about the actual story than action and violence. Instead of being thrown in jail, Batman's villains are treated in a mental hospital. Batman is psychological. He's the World's Greatest Detective before he's the World's Greatest Ass Kicker. I much prefer the stories that test Batman's mind rather than his ability to beat people up. Likewise, I find it scarier to see the Joker force somebody to laugh themselves to death than to see him skin somebody. It's scary in a psychological way rather than simply being shockingly gory like a Saw movie.
I happen to be one of the few who hated Brian Azzarello's Joker. It was all gore and no substance. The characters behaved nothing like they should have. Harley Quinn, for instance, was there to do little more than strip and skin some goon alive. She didn't even have any lines! That was NOT Harley Quinn. I don't mind a really violent Batman, but ONLY if the story and writing is good enough to justify it. I got the feeling that Brian Azzarello just wanted to write a violent, sex-filled gangster story, then slapped the Batman name on it to sell more copies.
You also mentioned Ultimatum. I HATED Ultimatum. It was everything I just described: a ridiculous gorefest with a flimsy storyline and no respect for the characters it gleefully killed off. I'm not trying to pick on you here (and I'm grateful for the replies, guys; you've all got some great ideas) and I'm fine with gratuitous violence and sex when I go into a movie like Hostel and I know what I'm in for, but I have a high standard when it comes to Batman stories. I tend to expect better than stuff like Joker.


Agreed viloence is almost always more effective when its implied, or when you only see the after effects. Like (the latter example) Rosarch coming across the mostly burnt clothes and bones of a little girl, or for the former a gore discression shot with Croc.

Also Ive always thought of Harley's and Joker's Relationship as being entirely Asexual, not because of what Harley wants (shed be fine with it) but because the Joker himself is asexual.

One last thing: A "Dark and Gritty" reinterpretation or retelling is almost always terrible, Obvious exceptions are stuff like Sesame street or My little pony, where the twisted perversion of the origional intent is part of what makes it worth while.

But something like a Batman story? Where its already dark and gothic but the depravity is not explicit? Then its just a waste of time.
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Re: How would you portray your favourite villains?

Postby GeneralSmashy » Aug 1st, 2011, 4:47 pm

^^ I agree about Joker being asexual. I've always thought of him as getting off on murder and mayhem rather than physical intercourse. I doubt he's ever actually had sex, at least since his accident.
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Re: How would you portray your favourite villains?

Postby BobGun » Aug 1st, 2011, 6:10 pm

Another quality thread.

Smashy, what you say about Scarecrow is so true. While I do like Begins - and Murphy's Scarecrow - I feel like they missed a great opportunity to be very creative and fantastical, without sacrificing the realistic setting.

I'd like to see Hugo's version fo Two Face; really good ideas there...TAS Two Face is probably my favourite incarnation, but I do like Wagner's take.

It's difficult to think of how to top the Hamill/Dini Joker, but I'd love to see a live action version of that. I'd stick to the Red Hood angle, but I'd bring Hugo Strange into proceedings. Basically, Strange is striving for genetic perfection and has a deal with the mob to provide 'soldiers' in return for funding. Strange orders a few members of the Red Hood gang to a chemical factory for a specific aid to his work.

Batman is tipped off about the break-in and follows it up after hearing whispers of Strange and his operations. Confronting the gang at the Chemical plant, Bats takes them down, leaving two, who make a dive into the run-off to the Gotham river. After making his way down the river, Bats finds a dead body, with scarring and blotchy, pale skin.

Now, I know it isn't exactly original, but I'd like to see something like this. We don't really see the faces or know the names of the Red Hood gang. From this, Strange's interest and fascination with Bats grows and intensifies, while giving birth to the Joker.
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Re: How would you portray your favourite villains?

Postby TheJester » Aug 1st, 2011, 6:25 pm

All of these are great ideas, and GeneralSmashy, you aren't alone, I greatly disliked Joker, it just didn't portray any of the characters as they should have, and it was all about VIOLENCE.

Okay, Poison Ivy. To me, the AA version is ideal. She is part plant herself, and radiates toxins which naturally attract men. However, her insane side would be derived from her talking to plants - she happily has conversations with them and treats them like children, except that the plants don't respond or even move at all, their voices are all in her head. She sees herself as their one and only protector and even despises 'fleshies' who try to help them, as they don't 'truly understand'. She lives off water, sunlight and oxygen and grows weak without them. She cannot control plants, but creates plant mutant hybrids that can feel emotion instead. (she was in fact a plant botanist before her transformation, hence she is actually rather intelligent and can cone up with incredibly complex cross breeds) Her toxidity comes from her poison filled lips, however this does not kill, only weakens to the point of near death so she can crush her enemies when weak or makes them vulnerable to hypnosis. And of course, first kiss poison, second it's antidote.,
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Re: How would you portray your favourite villains?

Postby xhunter94s » Aug 1st, 2011, 6:42 pm

Yeah, you're not alone GeneralSmashy, I as well hated Joker, the whole thing, just, ugh, and I do agree with you on Scarecrow.

The Penguin, if done right he can be a fantastic villain, quite underrated by some people quite often, I like him to be similar to he his in Arkham City, ruthless, not cause of the violence, but if done a certain way, he can be ruthless, you see him shoot a cop and trap hundreds of men so they can kill Batman and possibly gain The Penguin's respect, he can be on eof the most dangerous, not for Batman and the police (good band name) but everyone around him, I like him fighting Two-Face, gang wars like that, not a mobster, dealing with the Falcones but more of a villain like The Joker and Two-Face, I also like him doing some of his own work too, getting dirt himself, some field work, not a whole bunch and not silly umbrella schemes, but work out in the field, fight a man or two, kill a man or two, but even like that I do enjoy seeing him sitting back sort of, trying to handle what comes to him in the easiest ways, like in Gotham Underground, he promises to help some major villain escape the Suicide Squad who are attacking every major villain, The Penguin chooses what works best for him at the moment, not what will be good later, the major villains get captured, but The Penguin doesn't, he doesn't fool them either by pretending he did, I like that too, gets him into some deep trouble, I like how he looks in Arkham City too on another note, love the accent, but it needs the bird like mannerisms, bit of a mix of him in the comics (Gotham Underground especially) but also AC, I don't like him having a whole collection of umbrellas or birds, give him a bird or two, a vulture, some parakeets, sure, give him an umbrella, put a gun on it, put a knife in it, but give him more, he becomes campy, I don't know if anyone gets what I'm going for, but I sort of like The Penguin as a mix of what he's been pretty much.
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Re: How would you portray your favourite villains?

Postby Benji » Aug 1st, 2011, 9:11 pm

Some great stuff here, ecpecially yours Jester!

Mad Hatter should be frickin' scary and creepy, I'm tired of the image of just him being all happy and having tea parties, I want him to be mumbling to himself about eerie stuff, having his hat fetish focused on and he should also be short, unattractive and dressed in a worn out, stained suit. He should look so pathetic but at the same time his unbalanced and dangerous mental state should pose a huge threat.
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Re: How would you portray your favourite villains?

Postby GeneralSmashy » Aug 1st, 2011, 9:37 pm

Wow, so many replies! :heath: Lots of great ideas here guys! Jester, I really like your Poison Ivy, but my perfect Ivy would be one that is a complete monster, physically as well as mentally. I wrote my ideas down in another thread, so I'll just copy and paste them here:
"I don't think the 'environmental terrorist' Ivy that's popular these days is a very creative or interesting characterisation. It makes her just a little too sympathetic, and there are only so many stories you can tell with this version. She isn't some crusader trying to protect the poor plants from big bad mankind. That makes her seem weak and goodhearted, which she isn't. She's a manipulating monster who wants nothing less than to see the troublesome species called humanity wiped out. Once she's seduced her mindlessly submissive victims, she should peel back the skin of her attractive human disguise to reveal her true form: vines and roots writhing around a vaguely humanoid, skeletal body, otherworldly flowers and plant life budding from her flesh, eyes glowing with rage and sick pleasure as she devours her helpless prey. Ivy IS a plant. She is the voice of the vengeful Mother Nature, out to create a Green Apocalypse. In this sense she should be like a female Joker, sadistic and murderous, only less chaotic and random in her destruction. She's only out to further her cause and bring about the victory of plant life over human life. When Pamela Isely became Poison Ivy she lost any shred of human compassion she had and only evil was left.
Her sexuality is important of course, but it isn't her defining characteristic. By imitating the human form to systematically destroy mankind, Ivy is mocking us and our primitive sexual desires. She shouldn't actually get any sexual pleasure out of her kills (I'm no botanist but I don't think plants get aroused), only the joy of seeing a lesser species fall by her hand. She's arguably the most ruthless of all Batman's villains because she isn't just disconnected from humanity, she DESPISES us. But since she can't just go around murdering everybody, she uses mind control and seduction to systematically turn us into her puppets and laugh as we destroy ourselves. She's a direct contrast to Batman, who values human life over everything else. In their confrontations, while she is the voice of nature, he is humanity's representative, the pinnacle of human achievement.
Stop making Ivy sympathetic. We get enough of that from Harley and Catwoman. Let her be the utterly ruthless force of nature that she is and we might finally start seeing some stories from her that weren't just an excuse for Jim Lee to draw big green T&A on every other page. "

Your idea would be interesting though, because Ivy is not generally portrayed as being insane in the traditional sense. While my idea for Ivy is basically to make her as monstrously alien as possible, I would also like to see a more human Ivy. A creepy scientist gone mad who spends all day talking to inanimate flowers about how she's going to overthrow humanity, without realising that she doesn't actually have any connection to them. Maybe she could have no powers at all, just be a completely deranged plant themed killer whose flowers tell her to kill humanity.
Loving some of the ideas here guys!

-- Aug 1st, 2011, 9:43 pm --

BobGun wrote:
Smashy, what you say about Scarecrow is so true. While I do like Begins - and Murphy's Scarecrow - I feel like they missed a great opportunity to be very creative and fantastical, without sacrificing the realistic setting.


I was even more annoyed that they didn't play up Scarecrow's fantastical elements in Batman Begins when I saw Inception. That movie showed us that Nolan can blend fantasy and reality really well when he wants too, so why didn't we see any of that in his Scarecrow? It would have been awesome to see Batman striding down Arkham Asylum's corridors when suddenly the walls start rotating, gravity goes mad and Cillian Murphy appears in his full Scarecrow costume. Such a missed opportunity :/
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Re: How would you portray your favourite villains?

Postby Joe Chill » Aug 2nd, 2011, 4:59 am

Tell me more about these Marvel comics! Where should I start?
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Re: How would you portray your favourite villains?

Postby Enigma » Aug 2nd, 2011, 6:27 am

Joe Chill wrote:Tell me more about these Marvel comics! Where should I start?

Um... wrong thread?

Great topic, Smashy, I love to see other Bat-fans ideas about portraying villains. Usually I don't really want to change characters majorly, unless I really don't like the way they are currently, there are multiple versions and I want to combine them or I just want to see a certain spij on a character. That's why most of my villain changes would be mostly minor.

The Riddler:
I want the Riddler to be a genius, possibly surpassing Batman (or at least if he didn't have his disadvantages). I know that most incarnations of him tell that he is, but most are not convincing enough. In fact, to me, he sometimes looks a little incompetent in his plans. One of the main reasons that he could be seen that way is because of his gimmick: riddles. Sure, leaving a riddle behind is kind of stupid, unless you're toying with someone for a reason. The Riddler is toying with Batman, but it's also his OCD that is the reason he leaves these clues behind. The OCD would be the largest disadvantage to Nigma in my version. My version of the Riddler wouldn't be bloodthirsty or murderous, but also would not be totally anti-killing; some indirect killing here and there via deathtrap wouldn't hurt.

As for his personality in general, I think his current one is perfect in the comics/Arkhamverse. Something along those lines is what I would want him to be like.

Also, I would make the Riddler a little bit more physical. So he is able to take a hit from Batman, but not get into an actual fight.
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Re: How would you portray your favourite villains?

Postby Joe Chill » Aug 2nd, 2011, 6:54 pm

^ lol - no I was replying to the General and Dutchman's conversation about Marvel's 'Ultimate' line.
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