So...did scarecrow win?

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So...did scarecrow win?

Postby PriestlyBlock67 » Oct 21st, 2015, 2:32 am

I mean, at the STAGG airships section he basicly tells Batman his entire plan, and by the end of the story he get's what he wants, he executed EVERYTHING he planned for, minus the cloudburst. He even get's rid of the Batman forever, I mean we don't even know if that nightmare batman was real or just a metaphore to what Batman was. And after the short GCPD Lockdown we kinda get a confirmation that there is nothing left to protect gotham. All villains are okay and breaking out of GCPD for breakfast(literally). So yeah scarecrow is in jail, but he will get out of there in no time and there will be no more batman, he did it, he killed him, anyone else agrees?
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Re: So...did scarecrow win?

Postby ArthurWynne » Oct 21st, 2015, 10:57 pm

He almost won EXCEPT he did not succeed in making Batman afraid - so because of that, he lost.
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Re: So...did scarecrow win?

Postby Jack out of Box » Oct 22nd, 2015, 1:18 am

If you ask me he did succeed in doing just that. Batman Essentially gives up.

He doesn't request help from his allies, he doesn't seem to regret giving up on his mission founded on the memory of his parents. He doesn't even engage a lone scarecrow armed with nothing but a pistol when he has taken on loads more. He just hands himself over.

Scarecrow may have not ended up as satisfied as he intended at seeing Bruce in an agonizing and crippling fear but he sure led him to essentially abandon all he stood for in my opinion.
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Re: So...did scarecrow win?

Postby cloakandcowl » Oct 23rd, 2015, 1:08 am

In my opinion Scarecrow loses.

It's not explicitly stated but my interpretation is that the combo of fear toxin and Joker blood ended up cancelling each other out.

With no Scarecrow and no fear toxin Batman would've become Bat-Joker and his worst fears would've become reality, if Scarecrow had sat back, it would've just happened but because he dosed Batman up on fear toxin he gave him the mental and physical flexibility to struggle against the Joker blood whilst the Joker blood provided Bats with the immunity required to defeat the fear toxin. (Joker is commonly immune to fear gas)

Poetically this fits well for me. Batman ends up beating Scarecrow by overcoming his fear of becoming the Joker and he defeats Joker by having the Joker essentially save his life, thus having the last laugh.
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Re: So...did scarecrow win?

Postby PriestlyBlock67 » Oct 26th, 2015, 8:24 pm

You guys aren't getting my point

He wanted to take Batman out of the way and he did

Next time he escapes prision and be a threat to Gotham there will be no one left to stop him
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Re: So...did scarecrow win?

Postby DatBat » Oct 26th, 2015, 8:25 pm

Uh, no. Master Matt won.



Just kidding. Yeah, I think Scarecrow did kind of win.
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Re: So...did scarecrow win?

Postby Jack out of Box » Oct 26th, 2015, 9:06 pm

PriestlyBlock67 wrote:You guys aren't getting my point

He wanted to take Batman out of the way and he did

Next time he escapes prision and be a threat to Gotham there will be no one left to stop him


Yeah pretty much I guess.

If GCPD lockdown was any indication there are still loads of firearms and choppers, GCPD is inept at containing criminals (seriously the building is abandoned except for penguin's thugs) and it's only a matter of time till they all escape.

This time there will be no Batman.
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Re: So...did scarecrow win?

Postby kain9998 » Oct 28th, 2015, 3:13 am

Oh, definitely. Which is something I love - and not just because Crane is my favorite villain in the DCU. I like that for once we get an ending in Batman where the villain wins. We wanted to destroy Batman, and he did. Things may not have gone exactly as he planned - which, to be fair, as far as the Cloudburst is concerned was pretty much Jason's fault as much as it was Batman's - but in the end he achieved the largest of his goals.

That being said, he'll probably never be able to live down the fact that he pumped Bruce full of toxin and had basically no effect on him. But in the end Crane will be remembered as the one who beat the Batman once and for all.
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Re: So...did scarecrow win?

Postby dk09w1ngz » Oct 28th, 2015, 3:46 am

I'm going by that one thug who still said Scarecrow lost. At least if it was a victory, it was a Pyrrhic victory.
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Re: So...did scarecrow win?

Postby PriestlyBlock67 » Oct 28th, 2015, 8:42 pm

kain9998 wrote:Oh, definitely. Which is something I love - and not just because Crane is my favorite villain in the DCU. I like that for once we get an ending in Batman where the villain wins. We wanted to destroy Batman, and he did. Things may not have gone exactly as he planned - which, to be fair, as far as the Cloudburst is concerned was pretty much Jason's fault as much as it was Batman's - but in the end he achieved the largest of his goals.

That being said, he'll probably never be able to live down the fact that he pumped Bruce full of toxin and had basically no effect on him. But in the end Crane will be remembered as the one who beat the Batman once and for all.



Yeah, Batman won the battle and kicked everyone's asses, but he totally lost the war
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Re: So...did scarecrow win?

Postby Peel » Oct 28th, 2015, 8:45 pm

PriestlyBlock67 wrote:
kain9998 wrote:Oh, definitely. Which is something I love - and not just because Crane is my favorite villain in the DCU. I like that for once we get an ending in Batman where the villain wins. We wanted to destroy Batman, and he did. Things may not have gone exactly as he planned - which, to be fair, as far as the Cloudburst is concerned was pretty much Jason's fault as much as it was Batman's - but in the end he achieved the largest of his goals.

That being said, he'll probably never be able to live down the fact that he pumped Bruce full of toxin and had basically no effect on him. But in the end Crane will be remembered as the one who beat the Batman once and for all.



Yeah, Batman won the battle and kicked everyone's asses, but he totally lost the war


That much we don't know yet, until we see the newer legend that followed Batman, and whether or not Bruce was able to ensure crime never ruled gotham again under the Knightfall Protocol.
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Re: So...did scarecrow win?

Postby cloakandcowl » Oct 28th, 2015, 10:08 pm

PriestlyBlock67 wrote:You guys aren't getting my point

He wanted to take Batman out of the way and he did

Next time he escapes prision and be a threat to Gotham there will be no one left to stop him

... I kinda think you missed what Scarecrow was trying to do.

The Batman being destroyed is not Batman's/Bruce Wayne's worst fear. Crane is not about destruction.
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Re: So...did scarecrow win?

Postby Peel » Oct 28th, 2015, 10:13 pm

cloakandcowl wrote:
PriestlyBlock67 wrote:You guys aren't getting my point

He wanted to take Batman out of the way and he did

Next time he escapes prision and be a threat to Gotham there will be no one left to stop him

... I kinda think you missed what Scarecrow was trying to do.

The Batman being destroyed is not Batman's/Bruce Wayne's worst fear. Crane is not about destruction.


Crane wanted to take away all of Gotham's hope and to break the Batman - mentally by fear. That was his whole mission in AK - he wanted to gradually break the Batman through 'killing' Oracle, through having Commissioner Gordon betray him and through kidnapping Robin. Then at the very end, he wanted the world to witness him mentally breaking Batman through fear gas. And, thanks to the Joker of all people, Crane failed.

It was a pretty stupid idea if you asked me. Of all the times Crane has used fear gas on Batman in the past, he's always overcome it. Worse, the player doesn't even have to do anything to 'beat' Crane. They just watch the cinematic, walk around as Joker for a bit, beat Joker up and then wham, end of game. If they had put in a Scarecrow boss fight similar to AA that was incredibly challenging (Think Scarecrow's challenges from AA where he's watching over you combined with the Tower climbing from Catherine), then that would've made it all worth while. Or, more alternatively;

The writers could've done more. Rocksteady could've brought back Paul Dini. They did neither.
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